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All Users - The Open Forum => Plusnet Network and Technical Issues => Topic started by: kitz on November 27, 2006, 08:53:22 pm



Title: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: kitz on November 27, 2006, 08:53:22 pm
Announcement has now been made on the main forums - are we going to have it on here as well for the benefit of F9 and Metronet customers http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51330

It is on the other portals.

As has already been made aware PUG were shown a draft of the new network improvements, on Friday afternoon.  There were some questions on this that still havent been answered.

I apologise but I wasnt here this weekend and if I hadnt been so distracted by a certain event that occured on Sunday night when I got back and had to waste time on...   :x
I really would have had time to pick up on this much sooner and been way more on the ball today.

Anyhow Ive just been doing some serious testing..  at it would seem that the following is now occuring.

HTTP traffic being limited to 2Mbps
FTP being limited to 60 KB/Sec
YouTube etc streaming is being limited.

This occurs on numerous gateways.
Im well under my SUP/FUP limits  and BTw Speedtests confirm I should be getting more.

Anyone else seeing the same thing?





Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: wildmind on November 27, 2006, 08:58:11 pm
HTTP is definitely affected atm.
Windows updates are crawling down on a new PC - lucky if I see 100KB/s rather than the 400KB/s I should get.



Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: scarymonkey on November 27, 2006, 08:59:34 pm
I can watch youtube videos without buffering problems. Its been a while since I tried so not sure if the buffering is slower etc.


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: godsell4 on November 27, 2006, 09:28:50 pm

Yep, poor speed test results see http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51336

I am on £20/month PAYG!

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: Oldjim on November 27, 2006, 09:34:55 pm
Interesting comparison with previous figures from here  (http://usergroup.plus.net/news_1pctfigures.php)which justified the 1%ers
Average usage of 0-90% Premier for Oct/Nov 05 was 5.36GB and for all Premier was 10.98GB
The latest graphs for the equivalent times give these numbers
Average usage of 0-90% Premier for Oct/Nov 05 was 8GB and for all Premier was 15GB
Interesting discrepancy isn't it
However what is even more interesting are the overall usage numbers
The latest graphs show a value of approx 7GB for Oct/Nov 05 but the above chart gives a value of 5.28GB.
In the above I am assuming that both sets of data exclude the PAYG users


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: mikeb on November 27, 2006, 09:52:33 pm
Yup, see this thread : http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,3818.0.html (http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,3818.0.html) and other details on another thread somewhere as well - it's been going on for me for more than a week now.  Prior to that everything was just about fine most of the time and had been for absolutely bl**dy ages ... well, barring the occasional hiccup of course, but in principle everything was fine until a week or so ago.


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: godsell4 on November 27, 2006, 09:53:32 pm
This could be a coincidence, have just enabled VPN to my office at work where we have an uncontended 8Mb SDSL connection ... I get *exactly* a 512kb/s download speed. :(

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: kitz on November 27, 2006, 11:11:36 pm
Seems like this started tonight...  or it did for me at least - its certainly the first time Ive seen probs on http.

Ive put a load of tests and facts on the internal forums  and given someone a nudge to get Si to look at this tomorrow.



Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: dgdclynx on November 27, 2006, 11:19:42 pm
Interesting comparison with previous figures from here  (http://usergroup.plus.net/news_1pctfigures.php)which justified the 1%ers
Average usage of 0-90% Premier for Oct/Nov 05 was 5.36GB and for all Premier was 10.98GB
The latest graphs for the equivalent times give these numbers
Average usage of 0-90% Premier for Oct/Nov 05 was 8GB and for all Premier was 15GB
Interesting discrepancy isn't it
However what is even more interesting are the overall usage numbers
The latest graphs show a value of approx 7GB for Oct/Nov 05 but the above chart gives a value of 5.28GB.
In the above I am assuming that both sets of data exclude the PAYG users

Jim. There is something called Pareto's Law which says that in any population 10 to 20% will grab 80 to 90% of the resources. It is an economic law but is found to apply to most situations. So according to it whenever PN get rid of the 5% another 5% will take their place.
PN cant blame the current situation on the 5%. They have to accomodate the entire customer base.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: scarymonkey on November 28, 2006, 12:15:55 am
There definately appears to be a max cap on http downloads of just under 2Mb here, whether using 1 connection or multiple ones (I use freedownload manager).

Do I take it that some of those who had been tunneling through the gaming and voip policies are now using http, so PN are again taking action by rate limiting to prevent over abuse?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: NB on November 28, 2006, 12:39:15 am
It's just sticking a finger in the dyke, it'll solve nothing long term.  There are as many clever people working on ways round things like this as there are people trying to stop it.  The problem is the defenders are reactive but those trying to get round it are proactive and using many different methods.

How long will it be before someone comes up with a new approach. It'll be like virii constantly evolving and be impossible to write rules into the ellacoyas to deal with.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Inactive on November 28, 2006, 12:45:44 am


I apologise but I wasnt here this weekend and if I hadnt been so distracted by a certain event that occured on Sunday night when I got back and had to waste time on...   :x
I really would have had time to pick up on this much sooner and been way more on the ball today.







 :-o :wink:


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: mikeb on November 28, 2006, 01:00:06 am
It's just sticking a finger in the dyke, it'll solve nothing long term.  There are as many clever people working on ways round things like this as there are people trying to stop it.  The problem is the defenders are reactive but those trying to get round it are proactive and using many different methods.

You're almost certainly right in which case it's obviously time for Plan B then ...

Introduce a realistic and sustainable hard cap above which your access is totally denied unless more money is forthcoming or simply charge all customers by-the-byte to start with. Sorted ... well kinda :)

D@mn all those P2Pers (http://www.twowheels.force9.co.uk/STUFF/SMILIES/ranting2.gif)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 28, 2006, 07:36:13 am
ALl, for your info a cut and paste of a posting I made in the NDA PUG forums last night:

----
Guys,

As Simon has said we've changed *nothing* on the network today that wasn't changed on Friday so it looks like something has gone seriously wrong.

Only the heaviest of users are supposed to experience traffic shaping at all on Premier accounts.

Product specs supposed to deliver:
Plus - designed for web and email, not designed for downloading
PAYG - do whatever you like
Premier - excellent voip, gaming, excellent browsing, usable downloads on-peak, excellent off-peak

I think we all agree that clearly this isn't being delivered - your feedback has been received loud and clear and we're going to have a full wash up on this first things in the morning and back out whatever the hell has borked this so badly. No way 95% of customers should be affected by something caused by 5%.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on November 28, 2006, 10:02:54 am
I'm guessing someone entered a new figure for the amount of capacity to be allocated to the Gold queue and missed a nought off the end - that would explain both the dire browsing speeds and the appallingly slow POP3 last night.


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: Oldjim on November 28, 2006, 10:27:38 am
Jim. There is something called Pareto's Law which says that in any population 10 to 20% will grab 80 to 90% of the resources. It is an economic law but is found to apply to most situations. So according to it whenever PN get rid of the 5% another 5% will take their place.
PN cant blame the current situation on the 5%. They have to accomodate the entire customer base.
Doug,
That wasn't quite the point I was trying to make. it was the fact that the two sets of figures for the same period (Oct/Nov 2005) are markedly different.
5.36GB increasing to 8GB for 0-90% premier and 10.98GB increasing to 15GB for all premier


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 28, 2006, 10:39:16 am
They have to accomodate the entire customer base.


Found a customer doing 1.2TB of FTP this month. Yes, that's TB not GB. I don't think we'll be accommodating him.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on November 28, 2006, 10:45:46 am
Neil,

That post is a damming indictment of your failure to manage the platform properly - how the .... did he get away with it?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on November 28, 2006, 10:47:38 am
Have the police been informed? I'd like to hear how this is legitimate usage unless that person works for Cray Research or is a part of SETI.

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 28, 2006, 10:51:53 am
That post is a damming indictment of your failure to manage the platform properly - how the .... did he get away with it?

It's not often you and I agree ;-) But in this case I'll make an exception, hence the paragraph on 'lack of proper housekeeping' that we published yesterday. It simply should not be possible to do this. By updating our automated rules and having manual safety-net reporting as well we won't allow customers to detrimentally impact the experience of others. (He is a business customers so all his FTP is in gold, nice.)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on November 28, 2006, 11:01:54 am
A quick calculation - if correct - shows this is equivalent to downloading plus uploading at about 4270kb/s for the first 26 days of this month 24/7
How the devil did he manage that.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on November 28, 2006, 11:14:40 am
I don't usually link to the other place - but this post gives very useful information on speed testing linky (http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2779085&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=2#Post2779523)


Title: Re: Todays roll out
Post by: dgdclynx on November 28, 2006, 11:18:31 am
Jim. There is something called Pareto's Law which says that in any population 10 to 20% will grab 80 to 90% of the resources. It is an economic law but is found to apply to most situations. So according to it whenever PN get rid of the 5% another 5% will take their place.
PN cant blame the current situation on the 5%. They have to accomodate the entire customer base.
Doug,
That wasn't quite the point I was trying to make. it was the fact that the two sets of figures for the same period (Oct/Nov 2005) are markedly different.
5.36GB increasing to 8GB for 0-90% premier and 10.98GB increasing to 15GB for all premier


The lower set of figures tie in with what I know. The higher figures dont make sense.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on November 28, 2006, 11:22:07 am
But the higher figures are taken directly from the graphs in the latest announcement which are headed
Quote
Average Usage (GB per customer per month) trends (corrected to include all data from Aug, Sept & Oct)

Hence my questioning the basis used


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dhookham on November 28, 2006, 01:08:18 pm
A quick calculation - if correct - shows this is equivalent to downloading plus uploading at about 4270kb/s for the first 26 days of this month 24/7
How the devil did he manage that.

Short bathroom breaks?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: kitz on November 28, 2006, 04:08:01 pm
I don't usually link to the other place....[/url]

Well theres always the list of speedtesters thats up on my site you could have posted :p
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/speeds.htm

2nd section gives links to ftp,p2p etc.

-------------

oh... btw.. the fuller/ocean zen..  whilst works well for zen customers - outside users can often get spikes - been like that for well over a year.
Something to do with Zen routing and the different way that someone from an outide ISP comes in over a different link than a zen customers routing which is still within their own network. Spent quite a bit of time looking into that about a year ago.




Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on November 28, 2006, 05:41:36 pm
Short bathroom breaks?

Would that be a short break to go to the bathroom, or a short break from being in the bathroom?  :|

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on November 28, 2006, 05:49:28 pm
It's a computer, it can download without him being there :d


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dgdclynx on November 28, 2006, 05:59:33 pm
But the higher figures are taken directly from the graphs in the latest announcement which are headed
Quote
Average Usage (GB per customer per month) trends (corrected to include all data from Aug, Sept & Oct)

Hence my questioning the basis used


Jim. I went back to the graph and now believe the figures are accurate.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on November 28, 2006, 08:29:05 pm
Doug,
Which ones - those given at the time of the 1% clarification in December last year or the latest figures.
If it is the latest figures I have to ask how this affects the justification for dumping the top 1% and also why the usergroup were apparently given duff information


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dhookham on November 28, 2006, 08:49:20 pm
Short bathroom breaks?

Would that be a short break to go to the bathroom, or a short break from being in the bathroom?  :|

That rather depends what he was downloading  :evil:


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on November 28, 2006, 09:34:58 pm
Is everybody else finding speeds are absolutely dire again this evening?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on November 28, 2006, 09:45:25 pm
Earlier this evening they were terrible - about 800 kbps but just done another test and it is now back up to 2800 kbps (3000 kbps stable rate)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on November 28, 2006, 10:00:10 pm
They seemed to be dire about 30 mins ago, but I was in the living room and my wireless wasn't very good so <shrug>


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on November 28, 2006, 10:02:55 pm
My normal rate is about 3000-4000 kbits (sync speed 5400) but today I've averaged around 400 kbits. Just checked it using adslguide and got 420kbits.

At this rate PlusNet will soon be able to unload 1 or 2 of their pipes - they can't possibly need all of that bandwidth.  :-(

<edit> Tried again and now it's at 1.6Mbits but my own site (on F9's servers) still can't download any of the Flash audio.</edit>


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: kitz on November 28, 2006, 10:11:40 pm
Yep reported it to one of the network guys about an hourish ago.. 
but the person I really need to speak to isnt about.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: The Dude on November 28, 2006, 10:27:38 pm
In the same boat here, it's been slow all day but now I am getting around 30kb/s maximum even on http.  More page timeouts again and gaming is useless too, I hope we are not in for another week of this.  Thanks for reporting it kitz.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dgdclynx on November 29, 2006, 07:40:11 am
Jim. All three sets of figures on the graphs look accurate. Sorry I mislead you in thinking that the Premier was too high but I got it wrong.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dgdclynx on November 29, 2006, 07:44:41 am
Jim. All three sets of figures on the graphs look accurate. Sorry I mislead you in thinking that the Premier was too high but I got it wrong.


We have figures March to July and also for September to check on.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dgdclynx on November 29, 2006, 09:11:30 am
it is the latest figures I have to ask how this affects the justification for dumping the top 1% and also why the usergroup were apparently given duff information

Jim. According to Pareto PN dumping the 1% is like painting the Forth Bridge. A neverending process.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: bob_cat on November 29, 2006, 09:13:13 am
Short bathroom breaks?
Would that be a short break to go to the bathroom, or a short break from being in the bathroom?  :|
That rather depends what he was downloading  :evil:

That's a lot of porn!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dhookham on November 29, 2006, 10:59:24 am
Short bathroom breaks?
Would that be a short break to go to the bathroom, or a short break from being in the bathroom?  :|
That rather depends what he was downloading  :evil:
That's a lot of porn!

It's a lot of linux ISOs too!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dgdclynx on November 29, 2006, 08:07:03 pm
I have been thick which is nothing unusual but Old Jim has prodded at me till I have seen the light. In Bob Pullen's thread
 http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51330
in the Discussion Forums he posts a graph of Average Usage (GB per customer per month) which ties in exactly with the figures given to PUG which have been posted for general readership. The revelation I missed on my first look as that these figures were wrong and are now replaced by Average Usage (GB per customer per month) corrected directly below cos PN had made a miscalculation on the original figures. From that it will be seen that the rosy vision of the Ellacoyas reducing usage drastically was much of a mirage and probably explains the severe actions currently being taken.

I suppose many people, including Kitz, will already be aware of this but it has taken some time to penetrate my skull. Take a look at the original and corrected Average Usage in Bob's thread above.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dgdclynx on November 29, 2006, 09:19:10 pm
And just to confirm as Jim has been shouting that the figures for October 2005 in Bob Pullen's post bear no relation to those published by PUG after receiving them from PN.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: channel on November 30, 2006, 01:26:43 am
it is the latest figures I have to ask how this affects the justification for dumping the top 1% and also why the usergroup were apparently given duff information

According to Pareto PN dumping the 1% is like painting the Forth Bridge. A neverending process.


Now, there's the truth.

Anyone for being dumped?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: ianwild on November 30, 2006, 01:47:30 am
Neil should be able to pick up the points about the figures - It's not my bag or something I've dealt with before to understand what's happened there. I do want to make one point myself now though: If people are costing us more than they are spending, we have to do something to address that. If that's 0.5% or 50% of people it doesn't matter one iota - No user of one product should be subsidising the usage of another under our product design model. The people who say "it's always going to be about the NEXT 1%, 2%, 5% etc" seem to miss out that whole fundamental point (And that's the reason we argue with that statement whenever it gets made)...

In any case, what we are most definitely not doing is going down the route of blaming users for the issues with poor application speeds being seen right now - There are a plethora of contributing factors and none of them are the 'fault' of our customers. Admittedly there are people who have found ways round the product design we have implemented (which we need to address and should have done sooner), but that's not the cause of this on it's own, and no one is suggesting otherwise for a second.

Regards,

Ian


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on November 30, 2006, 08:24:28 am
If people are costing us more than they are spending, we have to do something to address that. If that's 0.5% or 50% of people it doesn't matter one iota - No user of one product should be subsidising the usage of another under our product design model.

I think I take the broad point but this is an extreme view. Unless everyone is on some sort of a PAYG tariff there will always be a distribution within a given price product, and unless the profit margins are excessive, the very top end of that distribution will always run at a 'loss'. Most service businesses have this model.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 30, 2006, 08:39:45 am
Unless everyone is on some sort of a PAYG tariff there will always be a distribution within a given price product, and unless the profit margins are excessive, the very top end of that distribution will always run at a 'loss'. Most service businesses have this model.

Absolutely. There will always be individually unprofitable customers, and that isn't a problem provided there are enough profitable customers on that product so that on average the product is profitable. The concern is if you get too many customers at the top end of usage on each product it skews the average usage higher. This is even more of a problem if they are low paying customers as their revenue does not contribute significantly to investment in bandwidth, so low paying customers using more but not paying more has a detrimental impact on customer experience all round.

So what to do?
1) Ensure that the products are designed correctly
2) Ensure that expectations of performance are understood
3) Ensure that customers are on the right product for their usage
4) Ensure that customers using way above the usage levels (to the point where they impact others) either move to a more expensive product or get managed so their usage doesn't impact others at peak time and they get a fair share of bandwidth off-peak


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Theo on November 30, 2006, 09:35:56 am
So what to do?

Simple - put everyone on the same PAYG tariff.  Then everyone automatically pays their fair share.  There could be a sliding scale so big users pay a lower rate per Gb.  I can't see why anything else is ever offered.  The bib bonus is that all the traffic shaping kit can go in the skip, and the staff who were attempting to keep it running could do something useful, like making email more reliable.

It is simple, everyone can understand it and its fair to everyone.

With hindsight, offereing "unlimited" bandwidth was never going to work


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on November 30, 2006, 09:40:06 am
The bib bonus is that all the traffic shaping kit can go in the skip, and the staff who were attempting to keep it running could do something useful, like making email more reliable.

Except, it couldn't - people would still want their streaming unaffected by other peoples P2P


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on November 30, 2006, 09:46:46 am
The bib bonus is that all the traffic shaping kit can go in the skip, and the staff who were attempting to keep it running could do something useful, like making email more reliable.

Except, it couldn't - people would still want their streaming unaffected by other peoples P2P
I think the point was that if everyone paid for exactly what they used, PN could afford the capacity to make sure that didn't happen.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on November 30, 2006, 10:21:08 am
The bib bonus is that all the traffic shaping kit can go in the skip, and the staff who were attempting to keep it running could do something useful, like making email more reliable.

Except, it couldn't - people would still want their streaming unaffected by other peoples P2P
I think the point was that if everyone paid for exactly what they used, PN could afford the capacity to make sure that didn't happen.
Peak usage would still impact this unless there was massive overcapacity to cope.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 30, 2006, 11:14:03 am
Simple - put everyone on the same PAYG tariff. 

Well we could, but plenty of customers don't want to be on a PAYG tariff - they want the certainty of a fixed monthly bill. Isn't it better to offer a choice of products so that customers can make their own decision?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: LC100 on November 30, 2006, 12:45:30 pm
Hi

Quote
Ensure that customers using way above the usage levels (to the point where they impact others) either move to a more expensive product or get managed so their usage doesn't impact others at peak time and they get a fair share of bandwidth off-peak

Isn't this what the traffic management system should already be doing?  These people should not be affecting others anyway.  The problem seems to be that bandwidth is in such short supply that managing those excessive users isn't enough, so we are all being managed to the extent we are getting a poor service.



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on November 30, 2006, 12:56:37 pm
I suspect there may be a fundamental flaw in the traffic management system as evidenced by testing last night (http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,3855.0.html).

It appears it is controlling speeds of individual connections made by our PC's to servers, not the total bandwidth we are using. So use loads of connections in parallel and you can get pretty much the full bandwidth for your connection speed. If enough people are doing this on the high priority protocols, no wonder there's nothing left for bronze and people using single connections (e.g. speed testers) are seeing degraded speeds even on the high priority protocols.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Laser on November 30, 2006, 01:17:07 pm
Quote
The problem seems to be that bandwidth is in such short supply that managing those excessive users isn't enough, so we are all being managed to the extent we are getting a poor service.
I know what you mean, but I don't think it's quite that simple.

I'm sure there's more bandwidth than we're seeing lately. A year ago speeds were acceptable to the majority, now they're sub-dial-up on anything other than HTTP. There has not been a hundred-fold increase in customers to match that similar decrease in speeds.

What I don't understand is why the traffic management is being used to play silly games designed to restrict people abusing the network. Take VOIP as an example. Personally I don't use it, but there was a lot of noise from some people when they heard about the capped-speed restrictions, and they seemed like they were "genuine" users of the protocol.

The capping was, we're told, proposed as a way to control anyone "hiding" P2P traffic as VOIP to get round the peak-time P2P restrictions. IMHO that is not the way to do it. PN should allow VOIP to sit, unrestricted, at whatever relative priority it is deemed to require to perform adequately. If monthly data reports show that someone is leeching 20GB of "VOIP" data then a real human being can look more closely at the situation and decide if it's deliberate abuse of the network. The T&C's clearly allow people to be told off or asked to leave for that behaviour. Same applies to FTP, email, etc.

Anyone doing 3 or 4GB of ANYTHING in a month is not doing "heavy downloading". That's only 100MB/day. Whichever way you cut it, they either suck more than their share of bandwidth at peak for one or two days per month and none the rest, or they spread small peaks of use over the overall time. Both scenarios, when taken statistically over thousands of users, produce the average "bursty" behaviour that we are supposed to want to achieve at peak. Hence, only the top 10% of users (or whatever those published figures suggested) would even be likely candidates to "watch".

Look at it another way. Let's assume an average connection speed of 4Mbps. 24/7 downloading over 1 month uncontended would get about 1300GB of data transfer. During peak hours of 4pm-midnight we might achieve 430GB. At a capacity budget for 50:1 contention a user could do 8.6GB per month PEAK TIME before he should even appear on the radar as potentially using more than he should.

So why, given my relatively paltry 1-2GB of use, am I (and others) seeing contention equivalent to 250:1 from restrictions intended to impact those doing ten or more times that?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 30, 2006, 01:47:46 pm
Isn't this what the traffic management system should already be doing?  These people should not be affecting others anyway. 

Yes, absolutely. When we launched the automated system in April it took us 6-8 weeks to get it running smoothly and it worked well during June, July & August. What we didn't do was keep updating our rules as usage changed and ensure we had proper manual 'safety-nets' in place to catch people dodging the system.

So by not doing that housekeeping it's really caught up and bitten us now so that the majority of customers who should not be being affected are being affected. So we're implementing some short term fixes which will be backed-out. E.g. the VoIP and gaming rate-limits and web-download prioritisation are just short term measures while our automated rules catch up so there should be no need to restrict those things for 94% of customers in the future.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Theo on November 30, 2006, 06:01:27 pm
Simple - put everyone on the same PAYG tariff. 

Well we could, but plenty of customers don't want to be on a PAYG tariff - they want the certainty of a fixed monthly bill. Isn't it better to offer a choice of products so that customers can make their own decision?

And there you have the root of the problem,  fixed bill, 'unlimited' bandwidth,  it doesn't add up and all the technical fixes are just sticking plaster on a flawed marketing philosophy.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on November 30, 2006, 06:12:32 pm
'unlimited' bandwidth

We don't do unlimited. You get an allowance on peak. You get a fair share of what's there off-peak.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: mikeb on November 30, 2006, 08:32:00 pm
I do want to make one point myself now though: If people are costing us more than they are spending, we have to do something to address that. If that's 0.5% or 50% of people it doesn't matter one iota - No user of one product should be subsidising the usage of another under our product design model.

I fully support the principle of traffic management and I most definitely support the previous (and hopefully the future) removal of users for totally unreasonable usage.  I don't personally care what the magic %ge is or if it is indeed a problem of 'painting the Forth bridge' magnitude, if users are abusing the network and their usage is significantly beyond what they are actually paying for then they should quite simply be 'encouraged' to leave. 

At the moment, it would appear to me that PN is losing (or running a very high risk of losing) reasonable and light-use customers due to them being clobbered the same as the high BW users. A certain amount of 'averaging' of usage is fine and to be an expected if not necessary part of running things but there is a limit to just how much you can p*ss off profitable customers by making them subsidise the unprofitable customers by restricting their service ;)

Admittedly there are people who have found ways round the product design

I sincerely hope that said people have been dealt with appropriately and are now no longer customers.  Assuming that it wasn't 'easy' to circumvent the traffic management (see comments further down) then it is most unlikely it was done 'by accident' and almost certainly a concerted effort made to abuse the network.

Except, it couldn't - people would still want their streaming unaffected by other peoples P2P

And they should get it because there would be no excuse whatsoever for PN not providing sufficient BW to cover the high level of usage if it was being paid for !  However, I'm sure there would be times when everyone would want everything at once so there would inevitably be some slow down and/or management required but it certainly shouldn't result in anything like the nonsense at the moment. In addition, those users Dling for the sake of it because it's 'free' would no doubt have a significant change of attitude if they actually had to pay for the privilege !

It appears it is controlling speeds of individual connections made by our PC's to servers, not the total bandwidth we are using. So use loads of connections in parallel and you can get pretty much the full bandwidth for your connection speed. If enough people are doing this on the high priority protocols, no wonder there's nothing left for bronze and people using single connections (e.g. speed testers) are seeing degraded speeds even on the high priority protocols.

I read that thread last night and I must say I was more than a bit concerned ... not at the findings but at the lack of common sense in those running traffic management if the conclusions are indeed true.  Everyone and his dog knows that running several parallel connections or using DL managers doing suchlike is *THE* way to get the best transfer rate in all cases except for servers which limit you to a single connection.  I was even using a DL manager for routine transfers donkey's years ago on dial-up !  More for convenience and the ability to restart failed DLs I must add but increased speed in a lot of cases was a very nice bonus.  Anyone who's ever tried DLing linux ISOs or similar on ye olde dial-up will no doubt know the feeling :-P

In addition, although I don't use P2P so don't know that much about it, it does strike me that it is 'designed' to grab every bit of BW it can get it's hands on and multiple parallel connections is pretty fundamental to it's operation.

If the traffic management is limiting services based on per individual TCP/IP connection rather than per IP then that is simply plain crazy and it's absolutely no wonder why things are as bad as they generally seem at the moment.  If the findings are correct and management is per connection then I'm almost lost for words ... except for something along the lines of sack the b*ggers responsible !!  because it's way more than incompetence, it's gross misconduct and professional negligence IMHO.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on November 30, 2006, 09:26:44 pm
At the moment, it would appear to me that PN is losing (or running a very high risk of losing) reasonable and light-use customers due to them being clobbered the same as the high BW users.

I could hardly agree more. I'm on PAYG and use in a typical month about 3/4 of a Gb. Lately the speeds have been terribly slow with even an email taking several seconds to open and some web pages taking longer than on dial-up. Even more annoyingly I have 2 accounts (the other is a dialup) so I am actually paying as much as a premium customer and getting a ridiculously poor service.

I keep hoping that things will get somewhere near to when I joined but they are simply and steadily worsening.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: hesketh14 on November 30, 2006, 09:53:48 pm
I agree also.  If light users (such as me) are being handled the same as heavy users, then  we can only do one thing and vote with our feet. Its just a blatent disregard for the service we are paying for. If I wanted to download Gb of data, I would expect to have to pay for it, and I would. I usually use around 1-1.2gb a month, its been more lately with the amount of speedtests I have been having to do. I have to ask the question, what do Plus Want???  There are going to be times when the network is congested, but the state of play at the moment suggests its always like this except in the morning. Tonight for example, browsing for me is problematic at best, very laggy at worst, tried to stream a movie trailer, this is nigh on impossible, and speedtesters suggest sub 512kbps speeds. Its nothing short of a disgrace. I have also tried gateway hopping to no effect, tried 2 gateways, both the same.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: LC100 on December 01, 2006, 08:11:31 am
Hi

Quote
Tonight for example, browsing for me is problematic at best, very laggy at worst, tried to stream a movie trailer, this is nigh on impossible, and speedtesters suggest sub 512kbps speeds. Its nothing short of a disgrace. I have also tried gateway hopping to no effect, tried 2 gateways, both the same.

On PAYG here also using around 3GByte a month and paying for 4Gbyte which often goes unused, so giving PlusNet more money than I need to!

FTP speeds have been poor recently however browsing the internet/streaming video clips has been fine.  Speedtests used to be always around 6500-6800 however the last week or so have dropped to around 6000-6200, this is at peak time.  I am on LLU and wonder if perhaps better speeds are had because we do not go through congested BT centrals, so proving that it is the BT Centrals that are too over subscribed?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: hesketh14 on December 01, 2006, 03:31:03 pm
Thanks

Speedtests and browsing are all fine again this afternoon, its mid evening when everything appears to go pearshaped, which I suspect is due to Plusnets lack of bandwidth, that even HTTP traffic is now affected. It would be good if the BT speedtester would work after 6PM, but when I try its always busy, and it would be a good indication if its Plus's network or BTs, although my exchange has just gone green again after weeks of red, but even when it was red I still had pretty good HTTP speeds and browsing. Anyone any ideas???


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on December 01, 2006, 04:54:53 pm

Quote from PN Press Relese (http://www.plus.net/press/press_releases/280606.shtml)

Quote from: Neil Armstrong, PlusNet's Product Development Director
Pay As You Go Broadband is ideal for customers with changing usage needs – downloading video and MP3 files is becoming more popular and because of the intelligent technology we use to manage our network; customers get high speeds whether they’re downloading a little or a lot.

Can I have that package please?

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on December 01, 2006, 06:01:55 pm
If light users (such as me) are being handled the same as heavy users...

And that's absolutely why we're working on this right now to fix it. There is no way that PAYG customers should be getting affected by heavy Premier and Plus users. We'll be putting out a further briefing and Service Status posting this evening which PUG are reviewing at the moment.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: tallcal on December 02, 2006, 02:17:51 pm
After reading these forums for a while now, I am really getting tired of the whole debate. Honestly, how difficult can it be to get things right? Other ISPs seem to manage ok? Who cares about the who, what, when and how. JUST DO IT FFS! We are all paying for a service and we expect results, not petty excuses and "we are working diligently to resolve the issue and aplogise to our affected customers blah blah blah" Plusnet have allegedy been working to resolve issues all year essentially firefighting and not fireproofing. I have been a loyal PN customer for years now, but lately even my patience is being tried. I come from an IT background and I can't for the life of me understand why things are still pear shaped: we are dealing with black and white figures here, do the math and take a lesson from RONSEAL!

Rant over!  :-(


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: dusty_bin on December 03, 2006, 08:23:03 am
Sorry if this has been noted elsewhere, but it's getting difficult to follow all the threads relating to PN traffic management in the forums on different sites.

The thing I have noticed is that, before about noon on 28/11/2006, my l8nc ping plots were as clean as a whistle.  Since then there are regular occurences of packet loss - although it does tend to be pretty clean during PAYG off-peak hours.  Unfortunately (or fortunately) I was on holiday before that, so I don't have the results for the rest of November, and can't be completelyly sure when it first started.
I've also reconnected a couple of times to check if it was a gateway 'thing', but it seems not.

I just wondered if others have observed anything similar on their connection.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 03, 2006, 05:25:48 pm
The root problem is lack of bandwidth on PlusNets main internet pipes. Without this nothing can really be done. The Ellacoyas allow shuffling of resources from one type of data to another and clearly need constant managing to stay on top of things, but there is insufficient bandwidth to cope if the least thing goes wrong. Some might say there is insufficient if things don't go wrong and I'd agree.

In all my (many) years in IT management I have never seen such reliance on fitting capacity to need. The more normal approach is to allow a very significant overcapacity. PlusNet's approach is to wring every last byte out of their resources. This has never worked in an IT environment and probably never will, things are simply too difficult to manage down to this level of detail. If there was more to spare, the system could tolerate the occasional (perhaps no so occasional) imbalance - perhaps even the odd failure, but not as things are.

I am achieving 700 kb tonight on a 5Mb connection. My brother-in-law (BT Broadband, same exchange) is achieving 4Mb. A bit of a difference.

PlusNet has been rigorously managed to deliver what you might call 'shareholder value' and it has paid off. But inevitably it has been at the expense of customer service. The only real hope at present is that if enough customers leave there will eventually be enough for those who remain. For the past months my PAYG contract hasn't delivered value for me.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: LC100 on December 03, 2006, 08:47:40 pm
Hi

Speeds today are the worst I've seen them in almost 6 months.  Speedtests are showing 1000-1500 whereas normally I would get 6000 plus.  The worst is this speed isn't a constant speed but made up of short bursts then much slower bursts or stalls, so even browsing the internet is pretty slow and painful.  On PAYG so traffic should be free flowing so goodness knows what other products must be like.





Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on December 03, 2006, 09:09:22 pm
Just run a couple of tests on BBMax and got 2850kbps and 2980kbps which isn't bad for a 3000kbps stable rate, thinkbroadband is only 1535kbps, speedtest.net is 2983kbps
BT Test is 2708 kbps but more interesting is downloading a ubuntu iso from an ftp site gave me 330kBps (=2640kbps).
Conclusion is that speeds are OK but the thinkbroadband test is inaccurate


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on December 03, 2006, 09:31:19 pm
Speeds have definetly improved in the last hour for me - I'm now managing to download at > 400kB/sec compared to < 25kB/sec an hour ago.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: LC100 on December 03, 2006, 10:15:29 pm
Hi

Yes things have gone back to normal now, I suspect 760 PAYG customer's have now gone for an early night allowing us to speed back up :wink:


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: ianwild on December 03, 2006, 11:12:54 pm
From a feedback perspective, letting me know what gateway you are on when passing over speed reports does help a lot, in terms of tying back the issue you are reporting with what our monitoring shows.

There is obviously still a lot we need to be looking at here...

Cheers,

Ian


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 04, 2006, 08:07:24 am
And that's absolutely why we're working on this right now to fix it.
There is obviously still a lot we need to be looking at here...

Heard it all before.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: ianwild on December 04, 2006, 10:07:20 am
Quote
Heard it all before.

And? You're saying we should give up working on this?

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm struggling with how your post helps anyone? (all of the people reading this board (including us) know the problem has gone on for too long)...

What is useful, if you are having speed problems, is for you to say so and tell us as much as you can about the real experience, with timings, what gateway you are connected to etc. Sitting here with graphs is all good and well, but they don't tell us nearly as much as a customer can. The fact is that there are a combination of factors causing speed issues for people, and pinning those down for individuals isn't easy. We had some successes and made inroads late last week. With customers working alongside us, we can make improvements much more quickly than we otherwise could and can continue to make positive changes - That is very much the point of us working with PUG.

There is no overnight fix, and no one is pretending otherwise, however we certainly aren't going to give up on that basis, and I'm pretty convinced that most of the people who contribute here have no desire for that either.

Ian


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 04, 2006, 10:33:34 am
Quote
Heard it all before.

And? You're saying we should give up working on this?

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm struggling with how your post helps anyone?

And again without meaning to be rude, I'm not sure how yours or Neil's does either. I am offering my step towards a solution which is to spend some more money on bandwidth in parallel with working to optimise the Ellacoya machinery. I think you need to take my posts together instead of cherry picking. You will see my views clearly.

The only apparent proposal on the table from PN's side at the moment is to continue to work on the Ellacoyas which only has the possibility of deciding which of your customers you should annoy more. I'm not naive to this business and I do think I have a reasonable feel for what is practicable in hardware/software terms. PN's combined thinking for the past months has produced a steady decline in service so perhaps a change in attitude is called for? The issue here is how long you will p*ss against the wind before you realise that the wind is too strong.

If your posting is the result of frustration then let me assure you that as one of those who pays your wages my own frustration with what you are providing me with is greater.



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: LC100 on December 04, 2006, 01:22:03 pm
Hi

Quote
With customers working alongside us, we can make improvements much more quickly than we otherwise could and can continue to make positive changes - That is very much the point of us working with PUG.

All that is happening at the moment is playing around with who gets what share of the bandwidth but there isn't enough to go around so that all customers are getting a decent slice of it.  Moving traffic/protocols out of higher priority queues so they can be legitimately dropped in a lower priority queue is just fudging the figures and I think this is what customers are realising and becoming ever more frustrated with.

The only real option is to add more bandwidth as you've gone as far as you can with traffic management which is why customer's are noticing the degradation to their service and PlusNet are having a hard time getting it work.  I wouldn't be surprise if the traffic management in itself is also causing a further slowing in service simply because of all the deep packet inspection going on!

Quote
The only apparent proposal on the table from PN's side at the moment is to continue to work on the Ellacoyas which only has the possibility of deciding which of your customers you should annoy more.

Exactly and it will cost them a lot more in the long run than it's saving now.











Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 04, 2006, 01:35:14 pm
Of the three replies on this page so far, 2 are sensible and spot on, and one is just in denial about the actual issue.

I'll leave you to decide which is which.



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on December 04, 2006, 01:52:23 pm
Sitting here with graphs is all good and well, but they don't tell us nearly as much as a customer can.

Ticket 20240771 opened on September 7th, enough information there for you? Ethereal logs, ping and tracert results, information I have had to go get from EAgames about their games ...

Now the problem could be at EAgames, but PN are not performing simple fault finding techniques to assess this.

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: ianwild on December 04, 2006, 02:27:41 pm
I don't think we have any disagreement about the problem that exists guys - It's clear for all to see.

Throwing money at the problem isn't the only answer mind you, and in any case as I so inelegantly pointed out the week before last, we already have capacity on order and we don't have a decision to make there right now. We already said we were reviewing our commercial model as the result of the proposed wholesale pricing changes, and hopefully it is clear that this all goes hand in hand, as it is our commercial model that directly defines the amount of bandwidth we provision. 

Our perspective is that the problem reported here wasn't nearly as apparent a few months ago, and in that time the number of users hasn't increased, and average usage, while increasing somewhat, certainly isn't the only cause of the change we have experienced. We are not an ISP who provide a traditional model where a large amount of customers are subsidise a smaller amount of heavy users, but it has become apparent that a lack of housekeeping at our side has allowed an inbalance along those lines to form, which we are now addressing.

What helps us most in getting to that point quickly is as much user feedback as we can get - That's all I'm saying!

Ian


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 04, 2006, 02:59:27 pm

Throwing money at the problem isn't the only answer mind you

However it is the one that yet again PlusNet refuse to do, instead focusing on continued shaping of more and more protocols.

Ever wondered why you now have an inbalance of users - coz all the light users are so pissed off with being shaped when they use so little - they've already pissed off somewhere else.

The only thing that is going to happen - is more an more low usage users leave - me and my business accounts being just some of them! (as an example - that's a total of £200 per month (4 business lines) for approx 18Gb per month total usage) How many more of those type of accounts can PlusNet afford to loose - I would guess not many, but if it means I can actually use my line on a Sunday night without playing sodding pipe ping-pong till i get one that works, then horray for me and an easy life!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Les on December 04, 2006, 04:00:05 pm

Ever wondered why you now have an inbalance of users - coz all the light users are so pissed off with being shaped when they use so little - they've already pissed off somewhere else.

The only thing that is going to happen - is more an more low usage users leave - ..........

So right Tam, I am a very light (usually less than 2Gb p/m) user, and am sick of the regular slow downs. I should, in my opinion, be able to use my base 2Gb with *no* slow downs of any kind on any protocol. I have been hovering on the edge of leaving PN since my original Metronet acccount was taken over by PN. Why I have not moved yet is really down to my waivering and possibly misplaced belief in the continuous PN spin on future improvements. Can BT do any worse? I think not.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 04, 2006, 04:15:11 pm
So right Tam, I am a very light (usually less than 2Gb p/m) user, and am sick of the regular slow downs. I should, in my opinion, be able to use my base 2Gb with *no* slow downs of any kind on any protocol. I have been hovering on the edge of leaving PN since my original Metronet acccount was taken over by PN. Why I have not moved yet is really down to my waivering and possibly misplaced belief in the continuous PN spin on future improvements. Can BT do any worse? I think not.

I've a friend that just moved house, PN wanted £50 house moving fee, BT offered a new connection for free, hes a light user (5Gb/month) was on Premier @ £21.99 - not sure what he pays now, but he actually said to me how quick the BT speed was compared to PN, and he hadn't really noticed the difference until the change  - but wishes he did it sooner!



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Les on December 04, 2006, 04:49:56 pm
[rant]

I just wonder, how many of the ~200,000 PN users are getting all these non-contention ratio related slowdowns/stalls/glitches/service drops etc, but *don't* complain/post/ticket because they think it's 'normal'? Especially if they are new to BB and mistakenly believed that PN could supply a 'normal' service.

I moved to Metronet to get a service that users had reported as very good. This was true. I had very few instances of some part of the service acting up a little but Metronet responded quickly and sorted these right away.

When PN took over, right from the first day, I have had ongoing and continuous problems of one sort or another, lots of promises of a better service, but still it goes on. A simple straight forward UK web page, in the middle of the night, shouldn't need 20 secondes to get to my computer! This isn't a contension issue - unless there are 49 other users mocking the so called PN traffic control system!

[/rant]

I feel a little better now.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Theo on December 04, 2006, 06:33:12 pm
I'm one of the low-ish users, web browsing and email make up 95% of my usage. I'm on PAYG and I rarely exceed my 4Gb/month allowance.  in recent weeks I have had consistent service of an acceptable level, but with some web pages a bit slow.  A few days ago I switched to using OpenDNS and I've noticed  that web browsing now appears faster.  Its possible other people are also suffering delays from PNs somewhat shaky DNS srevers.  OpenDNS is a free service.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 04, 2006, 08:44:41 pm
From a feedback perspective, letting me know what gateway you are on when passing over speed reports does help a lot, in terms of tying back the issue you are reporting with what our monitoring shows.

Ian, this is absoloutely ridiculous. I'm getting really slow speeds again tonight, where as a direct BT Speedtest with the test login gives me very high speeds, just like last Monday.


139Kbps
- connected to PN, via  lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.123]

====================
BT Speedtest results whilst connected via speedtest@speedtest_domain login via  esr7.miltonkeynes3.broadband.bt.net [217.47.74.146]

5321Kbps

5168Kbps

5385Kbps

5109Kbps

====================

134Kbps
- connected to PN, via  lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.53]

====================


Total usage so far this month:

 Peak usage: 102.83MB  4pm - Midnight 
 
 Off-peak usage: 233.27MB  Midnight - 4pm 
 
  Total usage: 336.09MB


Yet I get sub-broadband speeds when connected to PlusNet. IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE!



(apologies to moderators and other forum users for the use of caps locks/shouting on that last line)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: wildmind on December 04, 2006, 08:54:32 pm
Yup - speeds are shite tonight....

We're all noticing it I think - just posted some speed tests elsewhere and they are not even at 512kbps speeds


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: The Dude on December 04, 2006, 09:11:33 pm
Agreed, not getting more than 18kb/s and websites taking forever to load again.  I've got my MAC and I'm being migrated on Friday.  I've simply had enough now and it's a shame because I have been with Plusnet for seven years and only had problems since June.  Though the problems I've had have been pretty major.  I may be able to online game again at the weekend if all goes to plan.  :-P


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 04, 2006, 09:36:13 pm
23 minutes on the phone to PlusNet, and they're not aware of any problem - even though people are reporting it on the forum, just like last Monday when I called them about the very same problem (and it was "fast" in comparison a week ago - at least I could get half a meg speeds!)

PUG Members: Are PlusNet actually aware of tonights issue?  Also are the Networks team currently on site in Sheffield (last week I was told they wern't, which seems pretty poor/useless).


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on December 04, 2006, 09:41:16 pm
I believe they are aware of the issues tonight (although, I've not been in so haven't noticed any problems).


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 04, 2006, 09:45:16 pm
 :roll: So I was told they wern't aware of the problem, when actually they are...? If they're not aware of the problem then they certainly should be, and if they are aware then the service status needs updating, and urgently.

I trust that the usergroup are prodding PlusNet in to doing something about the current situation tonight (including a Service Status update to reflect the current speeds being experienced)?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: wildmind on December 04, 2006, 10:04:35 pm
Fenland - PN definitely ARE aware of issues.... several of us have been posting speedtests, traces etc and I believe there are conference calls and all sorts going on (would probably have been involved myself but I was in the bath when the phone rang!!!)

HOWEVER, I doubt this has been fed down to the CSC as there isn't much to tell them I'd guess. "Guys, speeds are crap, we've screwed up. We're working on it but don't know what to do or how to fix it YET"

BTW - I also know that they ARE working on this. I have spoken to Simon Day in the past couple of weeks and, despite what people may say about the PN spin machine, he is a totally straight up guy who will NOT bullshit me. The networks guys DO know about the problems, they DO feel every slow and achingly dire bit. It may also be worth watching the Al Wyse interview that Kitz and I did - he's now in charge of the networks team and he is also well and truly aware of the issues.

Am I defending PlusNet - no.... am I willing to say they are doing nothing or don't appreciate the pain - NO.

Hopefully this is a "balanced" view ;) Those guys in PlusNet do care.... and they have been getting it in the neck from us in a very big way.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 04, 2006, 10:09:58 pm
If plusnet even think about posting a profit this year - then there is something seriously wrong..

If they have 1.2M in ready cash - they also have 1.2M to install another 622 central, before they suddenly find themselves without any customers!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 04, 2006, 10:11:34 pm
Fenland - PN definitely ARE aware of issues....

HOWEVER, I doubt this has been fed down to the CSC as there isn't much to tell them I'd guess. "Guys, speeds are crap, we've screwed up. We're working on it but don't know what to do or how to fix it YET"

It's a shame that the CSC haven't been briefed on the issue, seeing as it's a current one and is service affecting. It'd be best if the people answering the phones actually knew the current status, so as they could re-assure customers and not appear as though they're (more) clueless about what's happening than the customer.

That and the fact that the service status could be updated to reflect the fact that PN are aware - something that could be done without having to directly involve the CSC staff...

Quote
It may also be worth watching the Al Wyse interview that Kitz and I did - he's now in charge of the networks team and he is also well and truly aware of the issues.

I did actually start watching it last night but fell asleep (nothing to do with the video - I was just very tired after a weekend away working at a show), but if I wanted to download it right now it's telling me that it'll be done in 1hr 35mins...  :x


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on December 04, 2006, 10:28:44 pm
but if I wanted to download it right now it's telling me that it'll be done in 1hr 35mins...  :x
I've just downloaded it using GetRight in 1 min 42secs - average speed 669.4KBps


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 04, 2006, 10:30:23 pm
but if I wanted to download it right now it's telling me that it'll be done in 1hr 35mins...  :x
I've just downloaded it using GetRight in 1 min 42secs - average speed 669.4KBps
Jelv1, reboot your router  - and you'll find out what the rest of us are talking about!



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 04, 2006, 10:30:56 pm
but if I wanted to download it right now it's telling me that it'll be done in 1hr 35mins...  :x
I've just downloaded it using GetRight in 1 min 42secs - average speed 669.4KBps

What gateway are you connected via? I might try and do some pipe hopping to see if I can get on one which resembles even half decent speeds (somewhere approaching those which I get when I connect with the speedtest login!)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Laser on December 04, 2006, 10:33:40 pm
I'm struggling a bit here to understand what on earth is going on. :|

On Saturday, before "the new config", I was getting some half decent speeds in comparison to last week. I was getting almost optimistic that the final fiddling on Sunday would really sort it out.

However, now we are seeing relatively poor speeds. OK, a lot of people are reporting HTTP as being dire, although it seems more or less ok here, albeit slower than usual. Email has sort of sped up a bit (but still isn't good), and FTP is crawling again.

Yet when I look on the bandwidth graphy thing, there's allegedly hardly any gold or silver packets being dropped. I thought we'd been told that should indicate good speeds for PAYG? Yet here it is worse than when they were being dropped. :?

BTW: I'm on pte-ag1 with around a 30ms ping.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on December 04, 2006, 10:36:04 pm
In the last half hour my speeds have doubled back to where they should be.
Have all the kiddie bandwidth hoggers gone to bed. :-D


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on December 04, 2006, 10:40:42 pm
9.47

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/63431877.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

10.40

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/63448066.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

Still not perfect, but a definite improvement :D


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on December 04, 2006, 10:44:19 pm
Now the problem could be at EAgames, but PN are not performing simple fault finding techniques to assess this.

SFA. During the time today when speedtest results were appauling, actually my online game was working well! Now that speeds have crept back up again in the last 10 minutes, it does not work so well.   :x

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 04, 2006, 10:46:35 pm

Still not perfect, but a definite improvement :D

It could just be users logging off either due to dire speeds they've had enough - or just general "crap its 10:45 lets go to bed!!"



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on December 04, 2006, 10:49:23 pm
... and they have been getting it in the neck from us in a very big way.

I should hope so too.

If they provide a steller service, then the reward is organic and viral growth based on people telling each other. If they f'up expect to get a b*ll*cking.

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on December 04, 2006, 10:57:44 pm
I've been connected to ptn-ag2 for the last 5 days. Are you saying that if I reconnect I'll get a different profile? If so I'll stick with the one I've got thankyou!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: kitz on December 04, 2006, 11:32:30 pm
I'll tell you guys what I know - since I dont think any of it is NDA'd.
I threw a bit of a wobbly earlier :/  and was surprised to get a phone call a bit later from one of the Networking guys.

Apparently they were running a couple of tests on my line but couldn't see anything to indicate the problems I was experiencing. (It was before others started reporting the same thing).  They thought my latency was normal (which it may have been for an Interleaved account - but not compared to what I normally get).

I was told they were calling a conference tonight - I haven't yet heard anything back - but I have completed a load of test and observations and posted them back to them - theres a couple of weird things Ive noticed and Ive passed the info on.

Since its now late - I dont expect to hear anything more tonight - but I would expect some information on whats going on tomorrow - HINT HINT guys.

As regards to mikes comments - I will back him up on this.  Sometimes I'm often cynical (despite rumours from other camps), but I can honestly say that the last time I was at PN towers I detected a change.
I trust Si, I spent a lot of time discussing things with him, and I got straight forward answers - no BS.

Whilst I didn't necessarily hear all I wanted to hear Id much rather know the situation straight up.  For the first time PUG have had real access to some of the more senior guys in PN rather than the marketing guys which we got landed with shortly after Ian_W left last year.

Gimme facts I can cope with that... then I can make my own mind up.

Whatever way the current situation is not good enough.

-----

Oh and btw..  if someone from PN wants to give me a free month of adsl this month - I'm not gonna turn you down - the amount of testing and hours Ive spent providing you with stats has meant Ive downloaded shed loads of ubunto isos again and again that I really have no need for - you will see my usage has rocketed this past week, and Ive downloaded far more than Ive ever done in the past. Im hoping that I should be ok until the end of the month - but I wont be if I have another week like last week.


* asking straight out in the open - you never know your luck - if you dont ask you dont get :D ;)
and this way if I do fall lucky  - then at least I cant be accused of it being for some ulterior motive - unlike some of the false accusations that have been thrown my way in the past.) :P

Oh and whilst on that topic - I'll clear up some other rumour - the only time Ive received a free month was last year when I voluntary went on a test platform to experience what were BBP like conditions. The free month was given cause I was out of pocket since I also had to use PAYG dial up.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: The Flying Gribble on December 05, 2006, 12:36:07 am
9.47

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/63431877.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

10.40

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/63448066.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

Still not perfect, but a definite improvement :D
At about 8pm tonight, the BBMAX speedtest was 386kbps for me - yup three hundred and eighty six kilobits per second and everything seemed to be crawling.  At about 10.45 it was back up to the usual 4400kbps. 

BTW, I'm on a 'Red' exchange (Horsham Carfax), ADSLMax, sync'd at around 6000, on ptn-ag2.

[edit: get my mega's and kilo's the right way round!]  :|


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 05, 2006, 08:21:15 am
At about 8pm tonight, the BBMAX speedtest was 386mbps for me - yup three hundred and eighty six megabits per second.....

Wish I was on 386 Megabits/second - Trekkies eat your hearts out!  :-D

(Last night was below 400k again.  :-( )


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: The Flying Gribble on December 05, 2006, 09:44:00 am
Wish I was on 386 Megabits/second - Trekkies eat your hearts out!  :-D
That'll teach me for posting when I should be in bed  :oops:


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 05, 2006, 10:33:02 am
Still no Service Status update to let customers know what is going on with the network... How can PlusNet ever believe they'll win back the confidence of customers?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 05, 2006, 10:40:54 am
Still no Service Status update to let customers know what is going on with the network... How can PlusNet ever believe they'll win back the confidence of customers?

Thats easy - there is nothing wrong with the network - all this is by design!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Oldjim on December 05, 2006, 10:44:42 am
Subject to correction by the more knowledgeable (most on here) looking at the usage graph last night not only were there a lot of dropped packages in the silver and gold queues but the amount of P2P (bronze on BB+ and silver for most other users)was so small that the margin for solving the problem by further limiting the bronze queue looks to be non existent unless PlusNet bite the bullet and actually complete the order for a 622Mbps central - chances of that happening before the BT takeover is IMHO nil


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: fenlandbroadband on December 05, 2006, 11:00:38 am
Still no Service Status update to let customers know what is going on with the network... How can PlusNet ever believe they'll win back the confidence of customers?

Thats easy - there is nothing wrong with the network - all this is by design!

But the speeds being experienced are less than the levels which PlusNet claim the network has been designed to provide.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on December 05, 2006, 11:03:24 am
Looking at the graph, I wonder what is the point of pretending that P2P can be used between 6pm and 11pm? Particularly for BB+ users where the difference between what they get and nothing is negligible. It would be far more honest to shut P2P down totally for BB+ during that period.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on December 05, 2006, 11:08:03 am
Just noticed something else about the graphs. At 2pm yesterday there were more "Customers online and downloading" than "Total users online".

Go figure! (just shows how much the graphs can be trusted)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 05, 2006, 11:11:22 am
Looking at the graph, I wonder what is the point of pretending that P2P can be used between 6pm and 11pm? Particularly for BB+ users where the difference between what they get and nothing is negligible. It would be far more honest to shut P2P down totally for BB+ during that period.

But that would be a change of T&C's something which allows customers to flee, surely from PN's point of view, its easy to shape it down to just above nothing, therefore not fully blocking it - but not enough for more than a couple of people to use and ta-da the same effect without the T&C's change.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 05, 2006, 11:14:54 am
Still no Service Status update to let customers know what is going on with the network... How can PlusNet ever believe they'll win back the confidence of customers?

Thats easy - there is nothing wrong with the network - all this is by design!

'The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten' - John Ruskin

Never so true!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: mikeb on December 05, 2006, 02:18:11 pm
I don't know what exactly is going on here but in a similar way to a week or so ago when a fair few users were reporting good and much improved performance whilst I was suddenly getting seriously dire performance, now it's the reverse !!

Yesterday evening, I was getting the best performance I've seen in the best part of a couple of weeks.  A test DL around 21:30 was achieving ~100 kB/s rather than the <<10 kB/s I'd been getting almost consistently for well over a week and an linux ISO DL via ftp started just after midnight was achieving near line speed on average :o  Record breaking speed in fact as I don't think I've EVER got near line speed on any ftp transfer from anywhere at any time !

Browsing, however, was still really sluggish all evening as was mail/news and things are most definitely far from right.  Even with the improvement on recent performance that I saw last night there are still some significant problems.  It is still a very long way from the performance I was getting only a couple of weeks ago and had been getting almost consistently for a very long time.  Something tells me that whatever the 'problem' really is, it is simply being moved around rather than being fixed or resolved ;)

Apart from the mysteriously changing performance despite no changes at this end and in most cases no change of gateway either plus the generally erratic data transfers, there are some very strange goings on.  My speed tests various last night were typically ~1 Mb/s on a 2M line and 1500 kb/s at best but, my ftp DL for instance was peaking >200 kB/s on a single connection ! Other DLs were fairly obviously being pegged at either ~50 kB/s or ~100 kB/s.

However, there is one major problem that is still very much apparent and that is the frequent loss of server connection for unexplained reasons.  A week or so back, to view a streaming video of around 300MB required several attempts over several days as it kept randomly hanging part way through.  Data transfer was very erratic at all times but it generally got significantly worse before falling to one packet every many seconds and then stopping altogether.  I actually DL'd just over 1GB in total before I finally got to see the whole thing.  It was a similar scenario for just about any DL from anywhere and in fact much the same for most websites as well - images missing and several refreshes needed to see the whole page.  This is still happening although it rarely occurs on websites now, they're just sometimes slow to load.

After 4 attempts to ftp my linux ISO last night and it failing at various points part way through I gave up trying to DL using Firefox as there was no way I could restart the transfer and I'd already DL'd way more than the total size of the ISO without getting anything usable. So, for the first time ever since moving away from dial-up I had to dig out and reinstall ye olde download manager.  I subsequently got the ISO at an average of near line speed but with at least 6 unexplained failures and restarts needed.  As with the streaming data problem, the data transfer went totally erratic and stopped at least once approx every 10 minutes.

The bottom line is that it now appears virtually impossible to DL just about anything using Firefox or my normal ftp app or if the server doesn't support restart or access streaming data etc. via PN if the file size is more than a few MB :(  I really can't believe that I now have to resort to using ye olde DL manager after so long not using it and obviously it's of no help whatsoever in certain circumstances.  I only got it in the first place because of similar problems on dial-up but primarily because of the 2 hour cut-off and I seriously haven't used it once since getting BB years ago.  Sure, I've had the very occasional loss of server connection over the years but so rarely that I can't remember the last time it happened before around a week or so ago and since then it happens almost every time. Where data transfer was just about always at a stable/consistent speed, generally at near line speed at almost all times of the day/night and had been for years, it is now all over the place almost all of the time and transfers frequently fail.  I get the feeling Mr.Ethereal will be coming to a laptop near me real soon ... also for the first time in donkeys years !

Sudden severe degradation in performance followed by several sudden and significant changes in performance all affecting a wide variety of sites, protocols and data types but most certainly not all simultaneously and not apparently affecting all users all at any one point in time either ??? ... this simply has to be something PN traffic management related IMHO (http://www.twowheels.force9.co.uk/STUFF/SMILIES/dry.gif)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 05, 2006, 03:50:11 pm
Well ... it would seem PlusNet appear either
a) Not to read these posts
b) Live in a world of their own.
c) Are trying a MAJOR new spin on things :(


Quote
Service: Other
Posted: Tue, Dec 05 2006 at 15:43:47
Subject: Broadband Platform Traffic Management - UPDATE

This is an update to the previously reported problems related to our broadband network management system. A copy of the last announcement can be found here:- http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1164999629.htm

We are continuing to investigate and work to resolve reports of customers experiencing speed and performance issues particularly during peak hours of the day across certain traffic types.

A number of configuration changes were made over the weekend to rebalance the network based on the impact each customer has on the network during peak times. One of these changes was to identify those who are the highest users of priority protocols during these peak hours. We then performed changes aimed at redistributing a share of the peak time experience from these customers to all users, putting the focus on interactive applications and web traffic (like viewing a web page, gaming or making a VoIP call for example) as opposed to downloads.

Reviewing these changes today suggests that the majority of our customers saw improvements in web browsing and http speeds compared to their Internet experience at the same time last week.

Today we will be implementing further changes as follows:-

- Moving Email from the silver queues back into the gold queues
- Removing the 512kbs rate limit across gaming applications
- Removing the rate limit across VoIP applications
- Reconfiguring the amount of Peer to Peer bandwidth allocated to Broadband Plus accounts during peak hours

Around 25% of customers are not getting the peak time browsing experience that we would expect and there are still issues affecting many customers' peak time silver traffic. We will continue to work towards addressing these issues and will provide further updates in due course.

Kind Regards,

Bob Pullen
Customer Support


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 05, 2006, 04:10:12 pm
Quite unbelievable. What on earth is the point of this kind of update to people who are having the great experience alluded to? The above posts clearly indicate that yesterday was some sort of nadir for many people. It would be good to know which users PlusNet have actually asked about their speeds.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: wildmind on December 05, 2006, 04:11:49 pm
Have just raised the same elsewhere.... not happy at all with that remark!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on December 05, 2006, 04:23:46 pm

I think the changes at the weekend were OK, however it seemed to be last night, Monday 4th, were bad for some people at leats those on this forum.

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: neilarmstrong on December 05, 2006, 04:45:36 pm
Quote
Around 25% of customers are not getting the peak time browsing experience that we would expect and there are still issues affecting many customers' peak time silver traffic. We will continue to work towards addressing these issues and will provide further updates in due course.

And the large proportion of complaints in the forum last night showed that the problem is still ongoing, not resolved. Nowhere did Bob say 'everything is fine now'.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: wildmind on December 05, 2006, 04:58:50 pm
Neil,

I am curious - how do you know it is 25% of users affected?

ALL

I have created a new sticky thread here: http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,3904.0.html with the aim of trying to collate speedtests and information throughout the evening so we can provide feedback to PN in a fairly structured manner. Could people, where possible, please post the information requested?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 05, 2006, 07:02:31 pm
Quote
Around 25% of customers are not getting the peak time browsing experience that we would expect and there are still issues affecting many customers' peak time silver traffic. We will continue to work towards addressing these issues and will provide further updates in due course.

And the large proportion of complaints in the forum last night showed that the problem is still ongoing, not resolved. Nowhere did Bob say 'everything is fine now'.
So everyone except 1 person on this forum ended up as the 25% ????? Certainly every post i saw last night except Jelv COMPLAINED about speed.

If you ask me i'd say its more than likely closer to 25% not affected and 75% who were!

Which raises another question - were tiscali users seeing just as bad - or only us BT peeps.



Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: NB on December 05, 2006, 10:42:50 pm
Well I'm at the start of a new billing month and have used virtually zilch of peak time bandwidth (I must've used a few K but not enough to register yet).  And yet I can't connect to my external webserver using https on a non standard port. :x

Edit just successfully got a single page to load after waiting 5mins :roll:

The ellacoyas are FUBAR.  IMHO Plusnet have tried to be too clever and have loaded them with so many rules and traffic descriptions that even the people programming them have no idea what the overall effect will be when they are all combined.  The system is now simply too complex to predict the global effects even a small change will have.

I long ago suggested a simple, easy to program way to give everyone a fair share.  Each package has a design limit eg 4GB peak 40 GB off peak.  As individual usage grows speed drops, light users get full speed, heavy users get throttled heavily.  E.g. First 2 GB peak at full speed, then 1Gb at 50% throttling, then 0.5 Gb at 75% throttling then 0.25Gb at 87.5% and so on.  The same for off peak.

No QOS or Gold Silver and Bronze queues no deep packet inspection.  Why because it isn't needed.

By setting the Package allowances correctly the self limiting nature of the throttling means there will always be plenty of bandwidth for the light users and heavy users will be driven away to other providers as they won't be able to over use the bandwidth.  There would be no need for Plusnet "manual intervention" "housekeeping" or watever phrase they fancy using this week for monitoring usage and kicking the offenders off.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 05, 2006, 11:10:03 pm
Dramatically better all-round results tonight (posted on review page). getting >3Mbits and a streaming rate of around 500k which is about as good as I've had.

A result!!  :-) :-) :-)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 05, 2006, 11:22:01 pm
Where as  - with a business account - I'm pleased to say that i have now been shaped down to a speedy 0.3Kb/sec

(http://www.tamlync.com/support/crapspeed.jpg)


Impressive is NOT a word i would be using to describe this service!
 


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Colin on December 05, 2006, 11:25:46 pm
What about other sites Tam?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jnwright on December 05, 2006, 11:29:52 pm
I posted about this in a thread in Plusnet's forum entitled "Downloading at 0.2KB/s" back in October!

http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50282&start=0

You will probably, eventually get it!


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: Tam on December 05, 2006, 11:35:37 pm
What about other sites Tam?
Similar, not as bad got about 25Kb/sec from mozilla when downloading firefox.

My speed has slightly increased to a whole 0.9Kb/sec now :) (must be getting late - less users downloading at PN)
(http://www.tamlync.com/support/crapspeed1.jpg)


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: godsell4 on December 06, 2006, 08:16:49 am
getting >3Mbits and a streaming rate of around 500k

Well it seems that at about 23:00 the speeds pick up again, and you post was a little after 23:00.

SW.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 06, 2006, 09:37:22 am
getting >3Mbits and a streaming rate of around 500k

Well it seems that at about 23:00 the speeds pick up again, and you post was a little after 23:00.

SW.

Yes - you may be right - I was out last night until late so couldn't try things out earlier on. I actually did some tests around 10pm and got good results though only got around to posting some after 11. I notice that Tam was still having problems after 11 though, still I'll check again tonight.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: chesterfield on December 06, 2006, 10:36:09 am
My speeds and latency improved considerably after 11pm, moving from less than 500kbps to around 2300kbps.  Latency also dropped from 500+ to around 100 or thereabouts.


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: portmoak on December 07, 2006, 08:09:29 am
Oh well, I tried again last night around 7:30 or so and my speeds were down by about a third from the night before (around 2000-2500 kbits) but still quite useable.

One strange thing was that I was able to download the Al Wyse interview test file at around 300kB but all other downloads which I ftp'd were much slower - generally between 20-50 kB. Seems like some odd sort of preferential shaping for the benefit of the test file. Surely not?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: ianwild on December 07, 2006, 11:57:43 am
Nope - I'm pretty sure we ain't done nothing for the Al Wyse file.

Is anyone else seeing this sort of difference?

Ian


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: jelv1 on December 07, 2006, 12:08:04 pm
Surely it's down to higher priority for http over ftp?


Title: Re: Todays roll out - Slow speeds
Post by: mikeb on December 07, 2006, 12:20:45 pm
Tests conducted yesterday evening around 21:30 as posted elsewhere


Wyse WMA DL: av 170 kB/s (pretty consistent a few drops to 0 kB/s)

Rapidshare HTTP DL: av 21 kB/s (wildly erratic, 0 - 50 kB/s)

USA HTTP DL: av 145 kB/s (pretty consistent a few drops to 0 kB/s)

PN FTP DL: av 65 kB/s (pretty consistent)

USA FTP DL: av 40 kB/s (erratic, 0 - 100 kB/s)


When I first DL'd the Wyse interview a few days ago, it came down at a consistent maxed out line speed. The first and only DL for a long time to get anywhere close to line speed and most certainly the first DL in a long time to maintain anything close to a consistent speed.  Just about everything else was (and to a certain extent still is) slower and considerable more erratic - some SIGNIFICANTLY worse than others it would appear ;) 

Being hosted on a PN site is obviously a benefit but I must say it did look/feel suspicious that traffic was being 'helped' rather than 'hindered' by traffic management even if it is most likely more coincidence than reality.