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All Users - The Open Forum => Plusnet Network and Technical Issues => Topic started by: rdrake on August 31, 2006, 09:12:42 am



Title: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on August 31, 2006, 09:12:42 am
..  just happened at 9.07am, back at 9.11am. Same as usual = synced ok with exchange, Tiscali side dead (no IP address etc being provided).   :cry:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on August 31, 2006, 09:15:48 am
..  and now email seems to have crashed!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on August 31, 2006, 04:35:24 pm
And again at 16.28, back at 16.33 - -  as before about five minutes. IP address gone missing but fast sync with exchange...

ADSL Port 
MAC Address  00:14:6c:68:d1:17
IP Address  ---
Network Type  PPPoA
IP Subnet Mask  ---
Gateway IP Address ---
Domain Name Server  ---

Modem 
ADSL Firmware Version 4.01.02.00
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 6415 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 639 kbps
VPI 0
VCI 38


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on August 31, 2006, 06:34:04 pm
Hi

Also getting around 1 or 2 PPP drops a day at the moment, and occassionally all internet traffic stops without PPP dropping for a few seconds.

It is a problem with Tiscali and they are working on it, not very fast perhaps, but that's the Tiscali way.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on August 31, 2006, 08:22:57 pm
Enough is enough.

I want back to IPStream 2000 and I want it now.  :x


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: scarymonkey on August 31, 2006, 09:02:23 pm
I had random and very odd sync loss all night last night on MaxDSL. Tonight it seems to be more stable although I can't get a sync to hold higher than about 5500Kbs when before I was well over 7000.

Personally I would like to try LLU as it would rid me of the BT BRAS that is going to start restricting my speed badly if I get anymore very low sync events like I have had over the past couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 01, 2006, 12:00:42 am
Personally I would like to try LLU as it would rid me of the BT BRAS that is going to start restricting my speed badly if I get anymore very low sync events like I have had over the past couple of weeks.

You REALLY don't want to go LLU - trust me.

 :roll:



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 01, 2006, 07:55:09 am
Hi

Quote
You REALLY don't want to go LLU - trust me.

It isn't that bad, I get consistant 6000+ download speeds no matter what time of day or night, with MaxDSL it was as low as 1500 during peak times!  I also connect via ADSL2+ helping give a more robust connection (never drops the line even in the worst thunderstorm) and will get the opportunity to have faster speeds quicker than those on BT still using ADSL1.

No BRAS profile to worry about or stable rates, and it doesn't matter how many times I connect/disconnect as the line will not try and mess with itself.

Apart from this latest PPP dropping issue my LLU connection had been up constantly for hundreds of hours.  I also experienced (like many others) similar disconnect problems when on BT with PlusNet due to PlusNet's idle timeout software getting it wrong, so you can't argue the BT product was/is more reliable as issues creep in there as well.

Yes PlusNet/Tiscali support is terrible, but then PlusNet supporting MaxDSL is just as bad.  I think the weakest link is PlusNet rather than Tiscali LLU.




Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 01, 2006, 09:35:26 am
Now then, this can't be just a coincidence!! I just lost the Tiscali connection again for EXACTLY five minutes...  I timed it! Same as the two occasions yesterday.

ADSL Port 
MAC Address  00:14:6c:68:d1:17
IP Address  ---
Network Type  PPPoA
IP Subnet Mask  ---
Gateway IP Address ---
Domain Name Server  ---

Modem 
ADSL Firmware Version 4.01.02.00
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 6528 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 639 kbps
VPI 0
VCI 38

Someone at PN please note...   there's a script or something running on the Tiscali system that's causing this.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 01, 2006, 10:21:30 am
I spent 1 HOUR 10 MINS waiting on the phone to the CSC last night to complain about this very issue. 3 weeks ago I started seeing random disconnections but they weren't too severe. I was online for up to 3 and a half days with  the occasional 5 mins downtime. Recently it's been getting worse so now on average I get up to 4 and a half hours with 5 mins downtime. most of last night I was offline almost every hour so I dread to think what it's going to be like in a few days time. Usual scenario with constant sync to the exchange and good SNR margins.

Prior to this I had the infamous move to LLU unannounced followed by 5 days offline so I'm pretty much at the end of my tether with all this.  :x

I already have a ticket in for the problem and had no response to some queries I made online so phoning was the only way sadly.  :-( After talking to the CSC guy, reminding him how unreliable the connection is, how unacceptable the situation is etc. I was told they know where the problem lies and are working on it. They seem to be blaming router configuration but surely that shouldn't take over 3 weeks to solve. An experienced network guy should be able to sort that in no time.

Looking at the Tiscali FAQ, I notice a worrying piece of information that tallies mind:

"- An ongoing bug with our Juniper ERX's (L2tp Network Server) is causing random disconnections for some Tiscali LLU provisioned customers

A case is open with Juniper and we plan to perform upgrades shortly to resolve this issue."



If this is the case, how come it's taking so darn long for Juniper to come up with a firmware fix?
That FAQ is dated 28th July 2006. That's OVER a month ago. A problem this far reaching known about back then should be solved by now. It's beyond belief that PlusNet KNEW about this problem and didn't even recognise it as being a priority until the notification appeared on service status on 28th August; a MONTH later. Isn't there a temporary fix they can put in place for affected customers? maybe routing through something without Juniper's name on it!
I would be curious to know why this wasn't an issue with BT connections.

I can't believe for a minute that it took a month to trace the fault and work out what needed to be done about it. I'm so close to demanding a move back to IPstream 2000 until this up to 8Mbit rubbish is sorted and all the bugs ironed out. It's difficult to know what to do right now.  :-(



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 01, 2006, 10:28:28 am
I wonder what Trading Standards would make of all this?   :roll:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 01, 2006, 12:51:48 pm
Hi

Quote
Now then, this can't be just a coincidence!! I just lost the Tiscali connection again for EXACTLY five minutes...  I timed it! Same as the two occasions yesterday.

I have seen the disconnections last only a few seconds before.  The last disconnection did take around 5 minutes to come back up.  Are we all disconnecting at the same time?

PPP Dropped: 09:31:22
PPP Back up: 09:36.02




Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 01, 2006, 12:53:49 pm
Mine also used to be much shorter but recently five mins seems the norm. Looks as though we might well be disconnecting simultaneously!!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 01, 2006, 01:15:54 pm
Hi

Quote
Mine also used to be much shorter but recently five mins seems the norm. Looks as though we might well be disconnecting simultaneously!!

I wonder if the disconnections are starting to affect more and more of us LLU users?  If whatever triggers it is meaning everyone affected is disconnected at the same time then the more of us suffering the bigger the hit of us all trying to re-connect again, hence bigger delays to get back on line?

It's probaby a bit of hardware somewhere that is faultly or overloaded and reboots every now and again. 


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: WilliamG on September 01, 2006, 01:16:29 pm
I've been trying to connect this morning on LLU but I can't get to the p/w authentication stage - it keeps timing out.

Oddly this follows someone from CS answering one of my old tickets to say 'my supplier had detected an open line - is my modem on ???

What!!!

These people clearly don't read the tickets.

I'm back on 56K to post this.

I'm also one of those who was forcibly moved to LLU.

I think I've been very patient over this last month,what with no connection,then dodgy connection,then no connection again. Ten loss of email.

Patient is running out. I'm seriously thinking about moving to another ISP (for the first time in five years).
If I wasn't tied into LLU I'd probably have already done it.

I'm beginning to wonder if this forcible move to LLU isn't some sort of scam to stop unhappy customers leaving?

Plusnet is almost a complete joke at the moment.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 01, 2006, 01:23:26 pm
Quote from Dave Tomlinson on another thread...

"The latest update we had this evening on the problem was that Tiscali think the problem is being caused by something on one of their supplier's (NTL) networks. We're pressing them as hard as we can as we know the problems that it's causing for our customers, as soon as we know more we'll let you know."


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 01, 2006, 02:02:40 pm
Hi

Quote
Now then, this can't be just a coincidence!! I just lost the Tiscali connection again for EXACTLY five minutes...  I timed it! Same as the two occasions yesterday.

I have seen the disconnections last only a few seconds before.  The last disconnection did take around 5 minutes to come back up.  Are we all disconnecting at the same time?

PPP Dropped: 09:31:22
PPP Back up: 09:36.02




Mine was

09:31:22 PPP Closed: No Echo Response(PPoA)

then a series of
PPP Closed: CHAP Time-out (PPoA)

and finally
09:35:06 CHAP Login OK (PPoA)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: WilliamG on September 01, 2006, 03:01:02 pm
I still can't connect on LLU. Dial-up's ok.

I'd raise a ticket if I thought there was a point - at the moment raising tickets simply seems to cause more problems.

What a farce. :(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: mr_chris on September 01, 2006, 04:54:29 pm
William - you should raise a ticket anyway... then there will be a record of your problem, e.g. a bit of proof to get them to transfer you back to IPstream if you can say "Look I've been without broadband since x/y/z see ticket number nnnn".


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: WilliamG on September 01, 2006, 05:33:03 pm
My BB connection has just come back.

The problem as I see it with raising a ticket in the present climate, is that it takes an age for anyone from Plusnet to take a look at it in the first place, and then when they finally *do* get around to it, the problem has often resolved itself.

Several days elapse between questions being answered (usually by a different CS person each time) and we end having a strange, almost surreal, dialogue of the deaf.

 I'm also worried that if I raise a ticket CS will flag up a problem with Tiscali who might start doing some unecessary fiddling with my connection.

The problem I had today wasn't that I lost sync - I just couldn't get past the password authentication stage, so I don't know where the problem is most likely to lie - with PN or Tiscali?.

The last ticket I raised somewhat broke my faith in Plusnet's ability to resolve any LLU related problem - they couldn't even tell me that I was LLU'd until several days after the event and after I'd raised a ticket!



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 02, 2006, 04:05:54 pm
Things are looking up! Not one disconnection today so far!  :-)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 02, 2006, 06:27:11 pm
Well, this isn't looking good. At 18:12:20 today I had another disconnect after 6 hours 44 uptime. My connection came back up at 18:14:04 BUT I didn't have ANY internet connectivity for a good 3 minutes after I got my IP address and the connection was restored.
Previously when I've been using the computer and get a disconnect, the link becomes active again pretty much immediately after the connection gets restored.

I do hope this isn't going to end up with me having no connection at all. Since it's been getting gradually worse over the last 3 weeks I'm at the point now that I don't expect it to work at all from one day to the next  :-(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 05, 2006, 08:49:42 am
Just in case anyone missed it...   posted on Monday 4th Sept..

We are continuing to work with Tiscali to identify the cause of the intermittent disconnection problem. Tiscali have asked us to raise each fault individually to them so we would kindly ask any customers affected by this problem, if they don't already have a fault open on their account, to raise this to us via the Broadband Fault Checker on our portal.

It is very important that customers raising these faults to us check all the diagnostic steps asked as this will ensure that no delays are seen raising the faults and ensure that accurate information about each fault is raised.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 05, 2006, 12:42:32 pm
Hi

Quote
We are continuing to work with Tiscali to identify the cause of the intermittent disconnection problem. Tiscali have asked us to raise each fault individually to them so we would kindly ask any customers affected by this problem, if they don't already have a fault open on their account, to raise this to us via the Broadband Fault Checker on our portal.

This smacks of Tiscali saying "we can't fix it, but it's only a few minutes outage before they get back on, so what's the problem?", which may be why PlusNet want to gather a list of complaints.  Tiscali know it's a problem affecting a large number of their connected users, perhaps all of them, as we are getting disconnects at precisely the same times, i.e. this is not a random problem affecting people in different ways.

Quote
It is very important that customers raising these faults to us check all the diagnostic steps asked as this will ensure that no delays are seen raising the faults and ensure that accurate information about each fault is raised.

Again Tiscali know this is a not a problem relating to the customer's end if multiple customer's get disconnect at the same time, why do they want individual fault reports?

Raising a ticket using the broadband fault checker, with the current level of support, will likely see it go un answered or returned with a cut and paste answer, i.e. "... during the first 14 days of MaxDSL the connection will be unstable, this is normal and not a fault......"  :|  At worse it will see a fault go into Tiscali requesting an increase in SNR that can never be reversed.

PlusNet need to be doing more than asking their customers to swamp Tiscali faults server with individual fault reports.





Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 05, 2006, 12:44:25 pm
The request for individual fault reports appears to have come DIRECT from Tiscali given the fact it says "Tiscali have asked us to raise each fault individually to them"...


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 05, 2006, 12:50:04 pm
Amazingly my ticket was read within 12 hours.  The response?

"As per the article you are relating to please could you use the broadband fault checker located in the connection setings of the member on our website. Once this has been performed we can then raise thia as a fault to our LLU provider."

*SIGH*

You know there's nothing wrong with the line, I know there's nothing wrong with the line.  Why the hoop jumping?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 05, 2006, 12:56:35 pm
Oh, and trying to follow the CS person's instructions results in a page telling me "Fault checks in progress".

Nothing like joined up thinking from PlusNet CS, is there?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 05, 2006, 01:52:31 pm
It was Dave Tomlinson that requested the data...  it might be an idea to "address" each report to him.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 05, 2006, 02:10:11 pm
Brilliant - just brilliant.

Everybody from God downwards already KNOWS that it's an endemic problem, not a bunch of individual ones, so let's invite our already seriously p*ssed-off customers to swamp our already overloaded ticketing system with hundreds more unnecessary tickets.

....assuming, of course,  that the poor sods can actually connect for long enough to (a) read  the Service Status message on the perennially slow portal in the first place, and (b) wade pointlessly through the broadband fault checker.

The only way I can suggest for PN LLU customers to tolerate this is to drink more.   :roll:

<Shaking his head slowly, Loombucket wanders off insearch of WilliamG's meths bottle....



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 05, 2006, 02:19:03 pm
It did baffle me as to why they wanted individual problems raised, but I'm guessing Tiscali had their reasons.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 05, 2006, 02:22:47 pm
Are we reading this correctly??

Tiscali have asked us to raise each fault individually to them so we would kindly ask any customers affected by this problem, if they don't already have a fault open on their account, to raise this to us via the Broadband Fault Checker on our portal.

I already have a fault report open, so I've just added a comment to it. Is this not what they mean, especially if all the other conditions asked about in the line-check questions have identical answers?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 05, 2006, 02:24:40 pm
I think you can have only one active fault report open. I'd just comment on it (and perhaps post the ID here) and someone will hopefully confirm it's what they wanted.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Simon Day on September 05, 2006, 03:41:21 pm
After sending Tiscali some very useful info yesterday, they have located a fault on their NTL provided backhaul. It seems that NTL rolled a change to their network which they have now rolled back. Since they rolled back, we have not seen any large scale disconnections. Tiscali have noted a couple of "blips" which they have escalaed already but generally, the service from our point of view looks much healthier. We are of course continuing to monitor the situation.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 05, 2006, 03:50:01 pm
Hmm... good news that Tiscali have found and sorted a problem, but I have to report that my connection is still dropping at distressingly regular (roughly hourly) intervals, then taking up to 10 minutes to reconnect.

I think you've still got problems, Simon.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 05, 2006, 04:23:31 pm
What time did NTL roll back their mod? I'm still getting WAN disconnections while remaining synced to the exchange (ticket raised this pm).

By the way...   do you guys know what MTU/RWIN settings you are using?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 05, 2006, 04:51:39 pm
Simon, it can't be anything to do with the WAN disconnection problem...   I just had yet another lasting exactly five minutes.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: dhookham on September 05, 2006, 06:13:03 pm
It did baffle me as to why they wanted individual problems raised, but I'm guessing Tiscali had their reasons.

The cynic in me thinks some of the responses above might be part of the reason... "PN say there are X with problems, but only Y reported the problem - it's not such an issue... jam tomorrow, Alice".

But, of course, no big company would behave in such a way, now would they?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 05, 2006, 07:29:21 pm
I can confirm that the problem hasn't been fixed.

at 19:26:22 tonight until 19:26:46 my connection was exhibiting the "sync up, PPP up, but no traffic flowing over PPP connection" problem.

Sure it's only 20 secs here and there, but it's enough to kick me out of games and means a lengthy wait in the queue to get back in.  FIX IT!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 05, 2006, 08:04:13 pm
Hi

Same here had a PPP disconnect at 7:46pm, took around 10 minutes before I was connected again :(



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 05, 2006, 08:23:41 pm
Same here too.  :cry:

Disconnections for me have occured today at 12:28 till 12:31, 16:43 till 16:45, 19:26 till 19:29 and 19:47 till 19:53. I'm expecting more overnight so I'll keep checking my logs as usual. During the most recent outage I mentioned, my router reported an auth failure after 5 minutes of retries. Whatever NTL have "fixed" clearly made no improvement on my connection. At least it doesn't seem to be any worse yet *touches wood*. I'm trying to be patient but this is getting stupid.  :x

I've added comments to my ticket (ID: 20150352) together with my latest batch of router logs so whoever wants to throw them at Tiscali and NTL, please feel free. I don't care how many legs you break, just please get it working again. I'm thinking this is a "feature" of LLU so maybe the website needs updating. :-(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: The Dude on September 05, 2006, 08:40:17 pm
My router shows 'LCP echo request failed' at every single one of those times too.  They were all followed by 'PPP negotiation failed' errors for a few minutes and then it would connect again.  I had just put this down to my line fault since the LLU migration but I guess it is part of the 'Broadband Disconnections' issue mentioned on Service Status if more people are getting this at the same time.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 05, 2006, 08:56:42 pm
If your line seems healthy and you're not losing sync with the exchange, then it sounds highly likely it's a connected with that issue. Disconnections at the same time can't be coincidental. It seems that there are still a number of people affected by this despite PlusNet's belief that it has been resolved.  I just hope someone looks at our tickets and picks up on this thread again. If it's falling under the radar we'll have to keep making a noise to be noticed. :(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 05, 2006, 09:57:11 pm
like bigrobcx I had disconnects at 12:28 - 12:33, 16:43 - 16:49 and 19:26 - 19:32.  Several people have reported the same drops on the plusnet forums.

... the service from our point of view looks much healthier. We are of course continuing to monitor the situation.

Doesn't look healthier to me, or to any of the others still suffering from these disconnects


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: JSchlackman on September 05, 2006, 10:23:54 pm
like bigrobcx I had disconnects at 12:28 - 12:33, 16:43 - 16:49 and 19:26 - 19:32.  Several people have reported the same drops on the plusnet forums.

Consider yourself lucky - I've not only had outages at those exact times but a lot more too! According to my router logs, LCP has gone down 50 times in the last 2 days alone; 34 times since 3pm yesterday, which Dave Tomlinson states as the time they beleived the problem had been resolved.

I've now had a fault open for my line for nearly 5 weeks and appear no closer to a resolution than when it was opened. I have to confess I am starting to lose patience.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 05, 2006, 10:28:44 pm
Hi

Like to add I had two PPP error tonight - one at 19:14 then at 21:16   Sync is fine, PPP up but now data - disconnecting PPP only then reconnected PPP - normally gets it going.  Sometimes get Auth Failed when PPP login in.


Phil


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 06, 2006, 08:54:21 am
Just to let you know that whatever rollback has occurred at Tiscali has had no impact on the problem here either - still getting regular hourly disconnects with between 5 and 20 minutes wait before successfully reconnecting.  My systes logs show this has been going on all through the night.

I don't think they're ever going to get this right - partnered with the two of the worst performing providers in the industry, they're p*ssing against the wind IMHO.

...even assuming PN/Tiscali/NTL/whoeverwereconnectedtothisweek recognise they've still got a problem....

 :roll:



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 06, 2006, 09:49:40 am
Would you believe..  (and I suspect you would!)..  I reported a fresh disconnect fault as per Dave Tomlinson's request and it looks as though they have reduced my speed remotely to increase line stability. Plusnet...  WE HAVE BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, GOT THE T-SHIRT!! It's not a line stability problem at the local end..  it's a data throughput problem on the LLU WAN.

 :x


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 06, 2006, 10:10:55 am
Hi rdrake

I though that this would happen to me too - so on the comments part of the fault checker - I noted the Problem ref number.  And did summary of the fault - Its a PPP issue not local DSL issue.

I hope this does not effect my other request for the target SNR to be lowered to 9db. <-- this ticket is been a nightmware - it keeps getting logged to Tiscali as a fault! Each time Tiscali come back saying no fault found, working ok.

In light this I descided to outline to program VERY clearly as CSC agents do not read the whole tickets.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 06, 2006, 12:55:35 pm
Hi

Quote
Would you believe..  (and I suspect you would!)..  I reported a fresh disconnect fault as per Dave Tomlinson's request and it looks as though they have reduced my speed remotely to increase line stability. Plusnet...  WE HAVE BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, GOT THE T-SHIRT!! It's not a line stability problem at the local end..  it's a data throughput problem on the LLU WAN.

My worst fears and the reason I went no where near the fault checker, you can't trust PlusNet to ever read a ticket or do things correctly, is it really getting better?  I posted in Adslguide.org suggesting their current level of poor support would likley result in what happened to you http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2648465, sorry perhaps I should have put a warning here as well, but then you get told off for knocking the company all the time :(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 06, 2006, 01:27:46 pm
Aha!  They've woken up to it.  This from the current Service Status:-

06/09/2006 @ 09:57 - ....Yesterday evening we received some information from Tiscali advising that they believed the issue had been solved. Our monitoring for the 24 hour period preceding this seemed to confirm that this was the case.

However, during the late evening, we continued to receive reports from customers advising that they were still experiencing issues, and this is further backed up by our monitoring.

As such we have escalated this issue back to Tiscali, along with further information surrounding the disconnections, and expect to receive further information shortly.


Watch this space, folks....



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 06, 2006, 05:59:48 pm
Just returned from a customer's site to find that my connection has been up and stable now for 4 hrs 22 mins.

We might just be getting there, folks.....



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 06, 2006, 07:15:29 pm
Me and my mouth!

No sooner had I posted the above when my connection went T.U. (a technical term, you understand  :wink: ) but it recovered within a minute, as opposed to the 10-20 minutes it normally takes.

We're not out of the woods yet.  I need a drink....



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: WilliamG on September 06, 2006, 11:10:51 pm
Seems to be an improvement at my end.
Only one disconnection in the last two days, as far as I'm aware, and I got back on straight after a reboot.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 07, 2006, 07:43:10 am
Hi

Currently my PPP connect has been up for 35 hours, with the recent disconnections at best it was 8 or 10 hours so perhaps they have finally fixed it?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 07, 2006, 10:07:20 am
Eeee by gum! I think you might just be right! Seems a lot more stable today...  no blips at all so far. Fingers crossed....  !   :-)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Simon Day on September 07, 2006, 10:50:01 am
Sorry for not responding earlier but I've been out of the office for a couple of days. So we had 24 hours of nice looking graphs, only for it to start occuring again. The stats that we gather clearly show large numbers of customers being diconnected from one pipe only reappear on another. This info has been pushed into Tiscali again and we are casing them for an update.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 07, 2006, 11:26:52 am
Hi

Currently my PPP connect has been up for 35 hours, with the recent disconnections at best it was 8 or 10 hours so perhaps they have finally fixed it?

Umm no, it died horrendously at 7:55 this morning.

And don't forget that PPP staying up is only half of the story, there's still the 30 second blips where PPP stays up but all traffic stalls to worry about.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: annie1 on September 07, 2006, 12:11:40 pm
Hi

Currently my PPP connect has been up for 35 hours, with the recent disconnections at best it was 8 or 10 hours so perhaps they have finally fixed it?

Umm no, it died horrendously at 7:55 this morning.

Same around that time, maybe just after 8am - I've given up noting exact  times!! 

 



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 07, 2006, 01:35:32 pm
And there it goes again :(

13:23 until 13:26 hard PPP disconnect this time.

Something tells me this fault is going to run and run...



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 07, 2006, 02:58:36 pm
Puffin, once again the timings coincide exactly with those showing in my router logs.

Having been on the sharp end of Tiscali (spit) 's service I promise I shall never moan about BT's poor service again.  Everything's relative, I suppose.

I really hope PN are having second thoughts about partnering up with such a bunch of incompetents.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 07, 2006, 03:16:35 pm
I'm still the same old problems too. My logs are similar for today showing disconnects at 7:54 till 7:57 and 13:20 till 13:25. I do wish Tiscali would upgrade from those gerbil powered switches and routers to something a bit more cutting edge. You can only make gerbils run for so long before they fall asleep on the job :-D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 07, 2006, 04:50:24 pm
Oh, a Service Bullettin!

"Following further investigations and discussions with Tiscali we suspect the connection drops experienced early yesterday morning to be the result of maintenence within NTL's network."

Well I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough.  PlusNet customers on the BT network always get advance notice of planned maintenance throughout the network.  Why are LLU customers not granted the same courtesy?

Talk about 2nd rate service.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Simon Day on September 07, 2006, 06:00:18 pm
I completely agree. The lack of maintenance notifications has gone on to the issues log and has been escalted to the service account managment team.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 07, 2006, 07:02:13 pm
I presume that's why we just had http://usertools.free-online.net/status/archive/1157648431.htm then.

Much better! (although would it really have been too much effort to sort the list of exchanges alphabetically?)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 08, 2006, 06:30:59 pm
I didn't get my hopes up about the problems being fixed despite my link being connected all night last night....just as well. I've checked my logs to find it disconnected again today from 17:51 till 18:00  :-(
So far I've only had the one disconnection so maybe things are getting there but I'm not ready to shout "it's working" from the rooftops yet. Can someone confirm if it's still more widespread or just "NTL maintenance" disconnecting me?
Just incase you haven't already noticed PN, I've attached the latest router logs to my open ticket to help things along.  :-)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 08, 2006, 06:36:08 pm
Well, today my connection managed over 6 hours before going T.U. for about 10 minutes (same timeframe as Bigrobcx) then recovering.  Not perfect but one hell of an improvement.

It appears from the Service Status announcement that a large contributory factor has been NTL carrying out large-scale maintenance on their fibre links.

For the last two weeks.

Without telling anyone.

So let me get this straight....

NTL provides Tiscali, which provides Plusnet, which provides us poor sods.  Therefore when we - the aforementioned poor sods - suffer a problem, we submit a ticket to Plusnet, who (eventually, if enough complaints come in) escalate it to Tiscali, who (when they get round to it, providing they're nagged stupid for long enough) escalate it to NTL, who finally (the same year if all is working well) confess to being the perpetrators of the outrage.

..and we, the aforementioned poor sods, are expected to put up with this and accept it as a satisfactory level of service.

 :?

Loombucket wanders off, humming "The kneebone's connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone's connected to the hip bone...."



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 08, 2006, 06:47:33 pm
Had the same disconnects as bigrobcx and Loombucket. From the PN forums and l8nc.com graphs I've seen at least 5 others have the same disconnects. Before that had gone for over 28 hours without a disconnect, was just starting to believe what plusnet were saying about it being fixed, should have known better  :-)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 08, 2006, 08:20:49 pm
Also had the same disconnect, namely 17:51 to 18:03 on Luton exchange

Bob Vaughan (Father of Peter)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 08, 2006, 08:31:48 pm
Just had another disconnect without loss of synch 20:25 to 20:29. Anyone else?

Bob


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 08, 2006, 08:39:17 pm
yep, exactly same times


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 08, 2006, 08:54:35 pm
Same here.   :roll:

I hope this isn't going to be within what PN regard as "acceptable".



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 08, 2006, 09:45:53 pm
Just had another disconnect without loss of synch 20:25 to 20:29. Anyone else?

Bob
Now that's interesting.

I suffered the "Sync OK, PPP Up, traffic stalled" disconnection at 20:24:58 until 20:25:22 when it came back to life without the PPP connection ever dropping.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 08, 2006, 10:30:18 pm
Curious. 20:25 till 20:30 was the same as usual here. Solid sync and PPP down, repeated reconnect attempts and lots of router log entries. On the plus side, the SNMP management software I downloaded and installed the other day is getting a damn good test. Works a treat too. Sure beats having to work through the annoying back to front logging Linksys offers to check on disconnects :-P


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 09, 2006, 08:26:34 am
Had another one this morning 01:13 to 01:18am

Bob


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 09, 2006, 12:22:51 pm
There's a new Service Status message acknowledging two further disconnections last night.  They've been referred to the Networks team.....

.....who (unless things have changed since July) only work office hours, so sod-all's going to be done until Monday.   :roll:

Just as a by-the-by, the phone call I received this time last week from a senior Plusnet person included a promise to phone me back (a) last Tuesday, and (b) yesterday, in order to answer or progress two seperate specific issues.  Would anyone like to guess how many of those promised phone calls have actually taken place?

You've got it....

....none.

Believe it or not, words are beginning to fail me.   :x



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 09, 2006, 04:09:39 pm
Have faith Loom!!  Just picture a nice foaming pint and a pie and you'll feel better!  :-D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 09, 2006, 05:31:14 pm
16:57 until 17:06 - hard PPP disconnect
17:08:54 until 17:09:50 - no traffic flowing
17:16:54 until 17:21:14 - hard PPP disconnect

Is this what we call "getting better"?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 09, 2006, 05:49:08 pm
Me too....   same times.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 09, 2006, 05:56:00 pm
17:50:06 until 17:51:16 - No traffic flowing
17:52:06 until 17:53:42 - No traffic flowing

Just what sort of a cowboy network are Tiscali/NTL running here?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 09, 2006, 06:30:09 pm
yep. Same here too.  :x As far as I can see, this problem is no closer to being fixed. Sure, occasionally we've had longer on the internet from time to time but we've got 2 providers and an ISP working at the problem and little has improved. Can it really be that difficult to trace and fix such a regular but intermittent fault?
Today is actually the worst day I've had since I first noticed the problems.
So far today:

Disconnect from 01:13 AM to 01:16 AM for 3 Mins 25 Secs
Disconnect from 02:46 PM to 02:50 PM for 3 Mins 24 Secs
Disconnect from 04:59 PM to 05:06 PM for 7 Mins 0 Secs
Disconnect from 05:10 PM to 05:13 PM for 3 Mins 24 Secs
Disconnect from 05:18 PM to 05:20 PM for 1 Mins 41 Secs
Disconnect from 05:49 PM to 05:56 PM for 6 Mins 50 Secs

So, whatever is going on to fix this, they're clearly not getting anywhere. It would be interesting to know if infact ANYONE has seen this fault fixed. Plenty of exchange maintenance the other day and nothing to show for it  :x

Refund from PN isn't looking any closer until the fault is sorted and closed. Even then I suppose there will be some 50 condition checklist for that to happen anyway and if you're lucky 5 customers will meet the criteria *sigh* .
 
We can't easily migrate away from the joke of a service Tiscali provides because about 3 ISPs accept "trial" MAC keys.....well, that was until Tiscali found "technical problems" issuing them so now all of us poor sods suffering on LLU can't migrate full stop. How convienient. Sounds to me like Tiscali know many customers are complaining and refuse to let anyone leave their "service" despite the inconvienience and poor value for money it offers. OFCOM and their pathetic voluntary migration code of practise won't give two hoots and help either. Fantastic.  :-(

So what customer lock in measures are going to be introduced for a cease/reprovide order with another un-Tiscali'd ISP then?
No doubt Tiscali will come up with some pathetic excuse why that can't happen too when people finally get sick enough to do that even though the £47 fee has put them off so far. I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't crossed my mind. I'm not putting up with this much longer. All I want is a good value reliable internet service. I can't remember a time my BT provided connection died. The incompetence is just at a whole new level with Tiscali and NTL involved.

I've kept myself calm and refrained from getting too vocal about this problem but now I'm just about at my wits end with it. Constant crap and pathetic excuses yet no clear signs of improvement. A complete shambles  :cry:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 09, 2006, 06:51:50 pm
Guess what reply I got to my ticket this morning!! I quote:-

"I have now changed the connection profile on your account to increase the strength of the signal.

This will lower the speed of the connection, but this is just to test whether the connection is stable at lower speeds. If you are able to connect and maintain a connection now, we can then look at gradually increasing the speed of the connection whilst also maintaining the stability.

If you could please restart your connection now and let us know if the problems persist or not."

This has reduced my download speed from about 4500kbps to 1148kbps. I wasn't complaining of an unstable connection I was complaining of the loss of connection while maintaining synchronisation. Same as everyone else.

I now have much reduced speed with the same problems!! Loss of connection at 17:05, 17:15 and 17:52 just like the rest of you. Words fail me.

Bob. 


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: hamgan on September 09, 2006, 08:11:34 pm
Having had a stable connection overnight I got the same disconnections around 5pm.  Left all equipment turned off, and when I just came back it was up.

Lo and behold the problem is resolved from PN's point of view.  Service status message:

Broadband Connection Problems (35465) – Resolved
This post is a resolution to the previously documented problems with connectivity for a number of our customers provided on the Tiscali LLU Network. The previous announcement can be found here:

http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1157796146.htm

Our Network Team have been investigating this issue, and whilst there have been 2 large scale disconnections in the last 24 hours, we have since seen an expected number of customers reconnect to the service.

We are also aware that some customers have been reporting “stale sessions” whereby, they are able to obtain synchronisation, or a signal, with the BT Exchange, but are still unable to connect. Again, we would advise these customers to power down all of their equipment for upto 60 minutes and then try to reconnect.


I certainly hope that this resolution means there will be no more random disconnections.  It is not a solution to ask customers to power down equipment for an hour at a time, surely???


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 09, 2006, 08:25:31 pm
Hi

Quote
I now have much reduced speed with the same problems!! Loss of connection at 17:05, 17:15 and 17:52 just like the rest of you. Words fail me.

I'm not surprised this has happened as the incompetence of PlusNet and their staff stay at an all time low despite nice long winded emails from the likes of Ian and others about how it's all improving.

It was PlusNet staff in this very forum, and via a service announcement, telling us to report these disconnects via the 'Fault checker' (which is probably itself still broken at the moment), in order to do them a favour in getting their supplier to do something about it.  Yet it seems the support staff at PlusNet are as disinterested as they have always been and know nothing of the LLU disconnect problems and just blinding fall over themselves as usual with incorrect advice and actions. 

This is just a disgrace PlusNet, and all those words of things getting better are turning out to be complete and utter rubbish.  We can’t trust your support staff to do anything correctly.

James, Ian, whoever, why and how are these stupid mistakes still happening?

Warningto eveyone on LLU: Do not report your LLU disconnection faults to PlusNet, you will only make matters worse


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 09, 2006, 10:57:49 pm
I now have an explaination as to why my connection profile was changed. I quote:-

"The reason why your connection profile was changed is because for the vast majority of connections on the LLU Platform these disconnection issues have been resolved, but for the few remaining problems we are now having to investigate and escalate these issues on a case by case basis."

From what other members of this forum have reported I find this statement surprising.

Bob.

-


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 10, 2006, 12:12:46 am
Have faith Loom!!  Just picture a nice foaming pint and a pie and you'll feel better!  :-D

OK.

Thinks....



(http://images.imagesource.com/preview/wmcomps/IS998-003.jpg)



He's right, you know.   :wink:



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 10, 2006, 08:55:46 am
I now have an explaination as to why my connection profile was changed. I quote:-

"The reason why your connection profile was changed is because for the vast majority of connections on the LLU Platform these disconnection issues have been resolved, but for the few remaining problems we are now having to investigate and escalate these issues on a case by case basis."

From what other members of this forum have reported I find this statement surprising.

Bob.

-

And also the support staff should know that changing the profile isn't going to resolve the problem as it isn't ADSL sync being lost, but the PPP connection while sync remains solid.

For me at the moment my LLU uptime is now at 109 hours, so it does appear fixed for me at the  moment, but it could be nothing more than Tiscali managing to decrease the length of time the network stalls, rather than fix it, and some hardware just has a longer timeout when a stall occurs and doesn't drop the PPP connection so quick?

The fact that people are still getting the same disconnects at the same time points to a problem other than individual line profiles.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 10, 2006, 09:12:42 am
Had another disconnect with solid synch this morning 08:34 to 08:40. Please tell me I am not alone! I am in Luton Beds. Perhaps the problem is geographical. If anyone else had the same disconnect, where abouts in the country are you? By the way my connection profile has not yet been restored to normal. So, I am now still getting the same problem but at a lower speed.

Bob


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 10, 2006, 09:58:15 am
08:34:31 until 08:35:02 - No traffic flowing

Interesting how these stalls develop into full on disconnects for some people while for others they seem to survive with "just" whatever they're doing breaking for 30 secs or so.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 10, 2006, 10:43:38 am
yep, 8:34 as well.  Does seem strange that there are treating them on a
Quote
case by case basis
when we are still getting them at the same time

Had another disconnect with solid synch this morning 08:34 to 08:40. Please tell me I am not alone! I am in Luton Beds. Perhaps the problem is geographical. If anyone else had the same disconnect, where abouts in the country are you? By the way my connection profile has not yet been restored to normal. So, I am now still getting the same problem but at a lower speed.

Bob

you can check these l8nc.com graphs to check you are not alone
http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=f992c4968315bdc89105e63d128bdf0d&sid=&day=today (http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=f992c4968315bdc89105e63d128bdf0d&sid=&day=today)
http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=cff470865877e43d5c2d857c95b21776&sid=&day=today (http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=cff470865877e43d5c2d857c95b21776&sid=&day=today)
The times are GMT, if you see a tall red spike at the same time as your disconnect you will know others are getting the same disconnect (there are others, they often get posted in the plusnet forums).

When I first raised a question about these disconnects over 2 weeks ago (before PN owned up to having a problem) they dropped my settings as well, went from 8Meg to 180K and still got the disconnects.  Updated my question all day and no response.  Posted a comment on the main plusnet forums (in the member centre of the PN site, use the community support forum) and within 30 minutes one of the PN staff that reads the forums had restored the settings on my line.  Obviously this may depend on who is online, but often the best way to get action out of PN is to use the community support forum.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 10, 2006, 10:46:13 am
and just had another [self censored] disconnect (10:37) whilst I was typing all that, though I was going to have to re-type it all


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 10, 2006, 10:56:43 am
Likewise!!   :x


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 10, 2006, 02:50:18 pm
Yep. same old troubles here too. 8:38, 10:38 till 10:42, 12:25 till 12:28 and 14:37 till 14:41 so far. Just checked my open fault and I've had an reply to my ticket:

"This is something we are still looking into.
Apologies for any delays in resolving this issue."  :roll:

Maybe that should read, "sorry nothing has happened to improve your experience. Tiscali and NTL don't care about you as a customer. All they're interested in is our money."




Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 10, 2006, 03:32:43 pm
Hi

Quote
Yep. same old troubles here too. 8:38, 10:38 till 10:42, 12:25 till 12:28 and 14:37 till 14:41 so far. Just checked my open fault and I've had an reply to my ticket:

Yep think I got one of these as well, while my PPP has been up for 110 hours plus, I was chatting on messenger when it said I had been signed out and lost the connection, I noted the time, this was 14:38, which matches your 14:37 disconnection quite closely.  I had internet access again around 20 seconds later.  Very annoying.  PPP didn't get lost completely though, just everything stalled for a bit.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 10, 2006, 03:33:26 pm
Me too.

08:34 - 08:40
10:37 - 10:38
12:25 - 12:28
14:37 - 14:43

and now 16:30 - 16: 35

Just for good measure my e-mail isn't working either. This is after the posting to say e-mail is fixed!!

Bob.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 10, 2006, 05:33:35 pm
Just to add to the information in public. I am on LLU on the same exchange as Bob (Luton) but I am not getting the same disconnects. My Last disconnect was on 9/09 @ 17:30 (been connected for exactly 24 hours now without a drop) and the time before that was on 07/09 @ 13:41.

I was getting disconnects at least once per day, often 2 or 3 but my connecton appears to be pretty stable now.

So the problem appears to be individual lines, or possibly the connection route they take through Tiscali/NTL and not specific to the exchange.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 10, 2006, 06:10:27 pm
Hi

Quote
Just to add to the information in public. I am on LLU on the same exchange as Bob (Luton) but I am not getting the same disconnects. My Last disconnect was on 9/09 @ 17:30 (been connected for exactly 24 hours now without a drop) and the time before that was on 07/09 @ 13:41.

I was getting disconnects at least once per day, often 2 or 3 but my connecton appears to be pretty stable now.

So the problem appears to be individual lines, or possibly the connection route they take through Tiscali/NTL and not specific to the exchange.
I'm like you, not had a PPP drop in over 110 hours, where prior to that it was a couple of times a day at times others have noted.

Perhaps like me you are not getting a PPP drop now?

I have noticed at least two stalls today, one where Messenger told me I was disconnected in the middle of a conversation coinciding with a time noted above by someone else and possibly another one just now at 17:54.  The breaks are probably the same problem they always were except now they have reduced the outage time so that most hardware rides over the break and so doesn’t drop the PPP connection (a false fix), but the disconnections still seam to be there.  I'm in Yorkshire.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 10, 2006, 06:17:43 pm
Me too.

08:34 - 08:40
10:37 - 10:38
12:25 - 12:28
14:37 - 14:43

and now 16:30 - 16: 35

Bob.

Bob, my router logs match yours exactly.  Now, I don't know where you reside but 100-1 it's not on the same exchange as me (I'm in Kent).

It looks like Tiscali/NTL/whatever are still furgling about with the lumps of damp string that suffice to provide us with Broadband connections and not telling anyone.

PN, you still have problems and they're NOT down to individual lines or even individual exchanges, OK?



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 10, 2006, 06:18:57 pm
Just to add to the information in public. I am on LLU on the same exchange as Bob (Luton) but I am not getting the same disconnects. My Last disconnect was on 9/09 @ 17:30 (been connected for exactly 24 hours now without a drop) and the time before that was on 07/09 @ 13:41.

I was getting disconnects at least once per day, often 2 or 3 but my connecton appears to be pretty stable now.

So the problem appears to be individual lines, or possibly the connection route they take through Tiscali/NTL and not specific to the exchange.

Peter, the actual PPP dropping has always been a rarity for me.

The problem actually manifests itself as random periods of 30 secs where no traffic flows across the network, as easily seen by MSN Messenger disconnecting or games kicking you from servers.

Are you sure you haven't seen any of this?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 10, 2006, 08:00:44 pm
I just stumbled onto a post in the PlusNet forums regarding progress on the random disconnects. Looks like this is going to be a regular feature for a while yet  :-(

https://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?p=355734#355734

Logging on as the guest user will let you read the full post as it covers serveral faults and is quite long, but in regard to random disconnects without losing sync, according to Dave Tomlinson at PN today:

"the exact cause (or causes as it may be) isn't yet fully known.

Tiscali suspect the problems to lie on NTL's network (certainly the larger sets of drops), and are working with Cisco (one of their hardware suppliers) to set up extra debugging on some of their hardware to help pinpoint this. They are also working with Huawei (their DSLAM supplier) to see if there's a secondary issue on their side (or help pinpoint a external problem) causing the smaller drops.

We're also speaking with our hardware suppliers to see if there's any further debugging we can do our side to find out any more information than we already have and if there's anything further that we can do."


So basically between PN, Tiscali and NTL, they're no closer to fixing the problem than they were two days ago (http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1157643083.htm). I just hope the resolved problem mentioned at http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1157796146.htm isn't a sign that they're giving it up as a bad job. Looks like we'll just have to try to hang on in there. We're all pulling our hair out over this but in their defence, everyone working to fix it must be about ready to take a sledgehammer to something :-D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 10, 2006, 09:33:27 pm
Having the same trouble, i did have a ticket open on the subject but the buggers closed it saying i have been connected to the internet so the problem must be resolved. God how i want to run someone through with a rusty chainsaw.     


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 10, 2006, 11:30:54 pm
Typical... had a PPP disconnect at 23:29 tonight.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 11, 2006, 01:49:41 am
Very bad day today - disconnects every hour or so.  The improvements of Friday seem to have disappeared.

Fer krissakes, PN - we can only take so much here.

 :x

Oh, and by the way - I've had a ticket open regarding this for NINE DAYS and have just received an answer, referring me to the Service Status and telling me to monitor it.

MONITOR IT?  I've been staring at the bloody thing as if it was about to give birth, praying that it would suddenly say "all sorted" and explain why we've been treated in this way.

Fat chance...



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 11, 2006, 10:36:40 am
Two so far today..   10.18 and 10.28 for five minutes each.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 11, 2006, 04:37:11 pm
It's very strange that after the two dropouts this morning the latency has come down to a very low value (about 25ms) and speeds are lighting fast. Anyone else experienced an improvement?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: annie1 on September 11, 2006, 07:51:11 pm
Anyone else experienced an improvement?

Nope, every day without a fail it disconnects, once, twice... I don't even bother to record it anymore, the last time was less than a few minutes ago...

I have been with PlusNet since the beginning of 2001 and never in all my five years with them have I had so much trouble...

Annie


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 12, 2006, 08:58:00 am
I note from the latest Service Status that my local exchange at Loombucket's Retreat has been included in those scheduled for "maintenance" early this morning.  My connection has been stable for 4 hours as I type this - I'll report back later today.

You never know, there might be an improvement.   :roll:



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 12, 2006, 09:12:29 am
And...   latency is as low as it gets this morning with speeds high...  and NO DISCONNECTS!!

 :-D    sofarisogoodi!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 12, 2006, 09:22:34 am
Ssssh - you'll jinx it!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: mr_chris on September 12, 2006, 09:24:16 am
lol, I was just about to say the same thing :roll:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 12, 2006, 09:25:00 am
Soz!   :wink:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 12, 2006, 01:42:53 pm
it seemed to be going so well ... 13:15 disconnect, 4 l8nc.com graphs show the same


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: JBailey on September 12, 2006, 02:02:00 pm
We saw drops at 13:!5 and 14:15 following on from an 8 hour period of stability.

Tiscali are due to perform further maintenance tonight which may or may not improve the situation.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 12, 2006, 02:16:44 pm
14:15, wow James you can see into the future  :-)  don't suppose you know what saturdays lottery numbers are do you?

realise you meant the 14:00 disconnect - I once posted that I'd had a disconnect at 13:75, teach me to buy a cheap watch :)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 12, 2006, 04:39:34 pm
14:15, wow James you can see into the future  :-)  don't suppose you know what saturdays lottery numbers are do you?

realise you meant the 14:00 disconnect - I once posted that I'd had a disconnect at 13:75, teach me to buy a cheap watch :)


The Battle of hastings was at 1066 which was just before lunchtime!

Five droputs so far today but more stability!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 12, 2006, 05:51:08 pm
This morning saw more dropouts at approx. 2 hourly intervals.  I powered down my router for about 3 hours this afternoon, so no idea how stable it is right now - I'll report back later.

EDIT:  AS of now (7:40PM it's been up nearly 2 hours but has just suffered the usual loss of sync with a downstream noise margin of 29834756db (as many of you have already experienced).  It recovered within a few minutes but I'd dearly love to know what's causing it.

We're STILL not out of the woods yet, peeps.   :roll:




Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 12, 2006, 09:16:17 pm
Hi

This morning saw more dropouts at approx. 2 hourly intervals.  I powered down my router for about 3 hours this afternoon, so no idea how stable it is right now - I'll report back later.

EDIT:  AS of now (7:40PM it's been up nearly 2 hours but has just suffered the usual loss of sync with a downstream noise margin of 29834756db (as many of you have already experienced).  It recovered within a few minutes but I'd dearly love to know what's causing it.

We're STILL not out of the woods yet, peeps.   :roll:

If your router is doing silly things with DB figures that points to a sync issue rather than a PPP issue (it's the PPP dropping that is the problem in this thread where sync is unaffected pointing to Network problems rather than physical ADSL problems), and ADSL sync is probably outside of PlusNet's control unless they start messing with noise margins on your line.  The likely problems are noise local to your or local to where your line passes.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 12, 2006, 11:27:19 pm
That was the first time I'd noticed that particular symptom, although others have mentioned it in relation to this problem - the chief problem is as previously stated (many, many times.....) in that the connection drops (loss of IP, DNS info, etc.) whilst the DSL sync light stays steady.

BTW, I've had two more disconnections this evening - roughly two-hourly intervals, each taking between 5 and 10 minutes to recover.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 13, 2006, 07:28:04 am
Hi

Quote
That was the first time I'd noticed that particular symptom

Ah, I see.  It could have been a separate thing causing that particular disconnect.  The PPP connection has no influence on the sync part of the ADSL connection.  I've read of funny db figures prior to a resync and it would seem that it is due to SNR dropping to zero or a negative number and a bug in the firmware gets confused and displays it incorrectly.  The sudden drop in the SNR causes the router to resync.

I've only had one PPP disconnect in the last several days, but still occassionally get a stall in internet traffic that lasts 20 seconds or so.  I think this stall is causing some routers to drop the PPP session as the router thinks the PPP session is dead. 


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 13, 2006, 08:28:34 am
This morning saw more dropouts at approx. 2 hourly intervals.  I powered down my router for about 3 hours this afternoon, so no idea how stable it is right now - I'll report back later.

EDIT:  AS of now (7:40PM it's been up nearly 2 hours but has just suffered the usual loss of sync with a downstream noise margin of 29834756db (as many of you have already experienced).  It recovered within a few minutes but I'd dearly love to know what's causing it.

We're STILL not out of the woods yet, peeps.   :roll:




Yes, that's a negative noise margin that can be caused by anything...  weather, dogs, cats, streetlights (there was one on here last week!).


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 13, 2006, 09:25:12 am
Question for PN support...   the "blips" on the total users online chart at the bottom of this page appeared regularly until about two weeks ago. They were apparently caused by a bug in the monitoring software.

They have just started reappearing and seem to coincide with some of my LLU dropouts. Are they now genuine?

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/network/broadband_bandwidth_usage.shtml?pn_session=a3e878a9558130e361ad636b51c5eb38


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 13, 2006, 03:29:05 pm
2 stalls this afternoon  :-(

It's still not fixed.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 13, 2006, 03:33:18 pm
14.26 to 14.32 and 14.38 to 14.43 by any chance?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 13, 2006, 04:15:50 pm
Well I only got the stalls, not the disconnects, but the start times match up.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 13, 2006, 04:18:45 pm
14.26 to 14.32 and 14.38 to 14.43 by any chance?
Yup - exactly what my router log's showing.   :roll:

I find it very hard to accept - or even believe - that PN/Tiscali/NTL still can't get to the root of the problem after all this time.  There's not even a current Service Status update to indicate what the situation is.

Frankly, I'm clean out of both patience and expletives (well, the sort I could safely post here  :wink: ) - it's all been said before.  It is, however, worth reiterating that as a PAYG customer I shouldn't have been subjected to LLU in the first place!   :x

I still haven't received the promised callbacks from PN either (they're over a week overdue) - I wonder what Ofcom would have to say about this ludicrous situation?



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 13, 2006, 07:27:11 pm

I find it very hard to accept - or even believe - that PN/Tiscali/NTL still can't get to the root of the problem after all this time.  There's not even a current Service Status update to indicate what the situation is.


I've muttered a few times about PlusNet's refusal to keep customers updated with the progress no matter how little is being made to no avail. I shouldn't have to spend hours on forums looking for staff contributions mentioning about the current progress but sadly PlusNet is no longer the company it was when I joined. Back in 1998 when I joined F9, PlusNet was much smaller, had a much smaller userbase and a lot less money. Customer support moved mountains to help sort your problem, faults were fixed quickly and we were kept up-to-date with progress. All a distant memory I'm afraid.  :-(

The inability to even trace the fault proves to me that all the marketing PlusNet did championing Tiscali's service was rubbish. Quicker, more reliable and better stablity...yeah right. When it works for me the connection IS quick but definatlely not reliable and stable.

I remember the claim that LLU meant better fault finding tools would lead to faults being resolved much more quickly. well, this problem for me has taken 5 weeks to get no closer to resolution. They must be really good fault finding tools. I normally bin tools this effective.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: hamgan on September 13, 2006, 09:47:41 pm
I am so sick and tired of this.  Like the others who post here I've had random disconnections for weeks now (after being LLU-ed without notice/permission etc etc).  The result of my complaint being escalated to a senior person in Tiscali was this response:

The suppliers update states they have now changed the connection profile on your account to increase the strength of the signal.

This will keep the speed of the connection to a maximum of around 150k, but if you are able to connect and maintain a connection now, we can then look at gradually increasing the speed of the connection whilst also maintaining the stability until we get the optimum balance between speed and stability.

The profile change has been done with the intention of stabilising the connection according to your specific line characteristics. I'm sure you would agree that it is better to have a slightly slower working and stable connection than a fast connection that works very intermittently or not at all.


Great, I thought.  I reconnected at about 1700.  Four (yes, four) disconnections later I'm now using the temporary free dial-up number to post this because I can't get the router to reconnect, and I'm wondering, what is the point in lowering my speed if the overall LLU disconnection issue (which I assume is the underlying fault for me) has still not been sorted out.  This isn't a "slightly slower working" connection now, it's a drastically slower connection that, to be honest, seems more unstable than it was when I was connecting at 4000kbps.

So, what are my options?  Request to be taken off LLU?  Wait to see if the disconnnection issue is ever resolved?  I don't see why I should pay £47 when I was not informed of being LLU-ed or even of being upgraded.

If anyone from PN reads this and can get my speed back up I'd be eternally grateful: I'd rather have my quick connection back as it didn't disconnect four times in as many hours, as the 150kbps has.  Please please please?  (My job ticket is 20038215)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 13, 2006, 10:44:05 pm
hamgan - might be worthwhile adding that request to one of the llu threads in the main plusnet forums (in the community forum), if you haven't already done so.  They tried that trick on me when I raised a question over 2 weeks ago.  Within 30 mins of posting a request on the community forum my settings were reset.

A plusnet member of staff has added a more detailed post in one of the threads, a few snippets

Quote
Our graphs are showing a mix or disconnections. There seems three type of drops, ones that affect several hundred customers at a time, some that affect 50-200 customers and some that affect 20 or less.

Quote
We have seen some very stable times as you say, but yet people report disconnections during that time, but looking at the graphs those drops are only affecting maybe 10-20 people at most. Which leads to further difficulties in finding the exact cause because there could be more than one cause (why are some drops causing only causing 20 disconnections and other several hundred and why are some customers not disconnected at all).

Quote
No need to apologise, totally understand, please believe me when I say what you've written is very restrained in some of the frustrations we've had trying to get this resolved. We want this fixed and fixed well weeks ago and are doing everything we can do get it fixed. Maybe we've taken a couple of stabs in the dark with the profiles (I know, I've tried almost every profile we have on one customer because you never know, it might work and it's worth a try).

These are responses to posts from a fellow suffer, for context see the thread "Service Status LLU Problem Fixed??"


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 14, 2006, 07:39:16 am
Hi

Why are they going on about changing user profiles, "a stab in the dark" it certainly is when people are not losing their ADSL sync.  Does anyone at PlusNet have any technical background into how ADSL works?

I think the whole LLU Tiscali network is stalling, however the time of this stall varies, and the longer the stall the more likely customer router's will think the PPP has dropped and so disconnect and try and authenticate again.  So when it's only a short stall, most routers ride it out with few dropping, when it's a longer stall more people lose their PPP and so see in their logs a PPP disconnect.

I've had a disconnect again yesterday after a hundred plus hours of PPP remaining up, however even during that 100 hours I was still getting moments when the connection stalled but my PPP remained up and this co-incides with other people here complaining of PPP drops at the same time, i.e. the stall causes their routers to time out and drop the PPP connection, while other people see a stall if they happen to be on the internet at that time.

I think PlusNet need to ignore the dropping PPP connections that seem to get the support staff confused and they start adjusting line profiles for no good reason annoying customers even more, and ask why the LLU network is stalling every few hours or so?  The PPP disconnects are a symptom of the problem and not the problem itself in my opinion.

I bet their is some router or piece of equipment a large chunk of us go through that is rebooting itself every few hours.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 14, 2006, 08:49:04 am
"I bet their is some router or piece of equipment a large chunk of us go through that is rebooting itself every few hours".

Now there's a thing! I've managed to catch quite a few of my disconnects when they start and time them. Every single one lasts EXACTLY five minutes down to the second. I've suggested to PN that there's a reboot going on somewhere or a script running that causes a data choke for that length of time. It can't be just a coincidence that the down time is precisely the same every time.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 14, 2006, 12:41:53 pm
Hi

Quote
Now there's a thing! I've managed to catch quite a few of my disconnects when they start and time them. Every single one lasts EXACTLY five minutes down to the second. I've suggested to PN that there's a reboot going on somewhere or a script running that causes a data choke for that length of time. It can't be just a coincidence that the down time is precisely the same every time.

What Tiscali need to do perhaps is find a person who they know is affected and trace their connection through each piece of hardware, then check that hardware for it's total "uptime" or event logs.  As the problem affects a large number of users they should work from PlusNet's end towards the customer as this the fault is going to be nearer PlusNet than the customer. It will be easy to spot the offending hardware by the uptime and compare with the how long ago the last stall was in the case of a complete reboot, or by spotting lots of errors in the event log.

Has this happened PlusNet?



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 14, 2006, 12:44:28 pm
An excellent idea!! I'm sure it can be done.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: quantic on September 14, 2006, 04:27:16 pm
Today (14 Sept) Random disconnects have happened all day, and for the past three evenings at around 8pm for over an hour a failure to connect. My computer is OK, modem hard wired and latest drivers installed.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 14, 2006, 11:05:18 pm
Stalled twice to me today at 10 and 11, it's a damn joke.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 15, 2006, 08:57:21 am
This was posted yesterday on the portal..

"We have been closely examining changes made across Tiscali's and their partners' networks since around 23rd August when the problem began."

The problem began much earlier than that...  around the second week of July actually (I logged it). My earlier tickets were either read incorrectly or ignored.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 15, 2006, 09:16:04 am
Quote
Why are they going on about changing user profiles, "a stab in the dark" it certainly is when people are not losing their ADSL sync.  Does anyone at PlusNet have any technical background into how ADSL works?

Thats why I got James to close my call - as the support people was messing this my sync speed, even though I did comment the PN Ref number for the issue.

Phil


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 15, 2006, 10:14:09 am
I first started noticing random disconnects around 11th August but I didn't raise a fault with PN straight away because I'd only recently been LLU'd without notification. I had raised a fault for that fiasco during the cease/reprovide to Tiscali's kit and only closed it about a week and a half before I noticed the first random disconnect.

Because I'd had problems so recently and it was early days on LLU, I spent about 2 weeks troubleshooting my equipment and line incase I was being disconnected by something I needed to fix myself. After all, there's no point raising a fault if I have to repair the issue myself anyway. Well, after exhausting everything I could and finding nothing wrong I raised my fault on the 25th August. Presumably PN are only recognising the fault from the 23rd because of a good percentage of users also spent time testing and raised thier fault around the same time.

It's a shame no-one has any logs or graphs handy to show it was infact happening much earlier than PN will admit. In the early days of a problem like this though, collecting logs and making pretty graphs isn't always the most productive way to troubleshoot the problem.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 15, 2006, 10:19:38 am
OK....   just disconnected on Tiscali side....   10.12 to 10.19.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 15, 2006, 12:14:14 pm
Bad day today...  two more..  11.08 to 11.11 and 12.10 to 12.14.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: annie1 on September 15, 2006, 12:28:37 pm
Bad day today...  two more..  11.08 to 11.11 and 12.10 to 12.14.

Its bad, bad, bad every day...

I think if I had not taken the decision to leave PN and come back (back to IP Stream) I would be looking around for another ISP.  What's 7 days withouth access compared with the frustrations of constantly loosing the connection when you are trying to do something?  Roll on the month end.

I tried to FTP the day before yesterday and it was near impossible.  What have Tiscali done to the service?    It's by far the worse I've known, in fact I have left ISPs in the past for much less.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 15, 2006, 07:05:27 pm
Just had another disconnect.....18:45 to 18:53. My connection behaved a little differently this time. Usually whatever I'm doing gets interrupted without warning and the PPP connection  drops immediately. This time, I was browsing websites. I clicked a link and the page took too long to open so I had a timeout from my browser. At this point the link was still reported to be up on my router.

I immediately clicked retry and after about 30 seconds three quarters of the page downloaded including images before the internet light went out on the router and the logs reported "no response to 3 echo requests". That time there was definately a stall in the link. Strangely it took my router longer to timeout and assume the connection had died. As usual, sync was solid so definately the same problem....just a slight change in behaviour!




Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 15, 2006, 07:38:29 pm
annie1 and bigrobcx - once again my router logs match both yours exactly.

Oh, how I wish I could leave Plusnet...   :cry:

I've just returned from implementing a Remote Desktop connection between a customer's home wireless network and their office LAN.  Looking at their router logs, they haven't had a disconnection in WEEKS!

Needless to say, they are not with Plusnet.  Or Tiscali.  Or NTL.

<...thoroughly discouraged, Loombucket wanders off in search of an enormous drink....>



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 15, 2006, 07:43:00 pm
I've had 5 disconnects today (the worst I have seen recently) which suggests the problems, for me anyway, are actually getting worse, not better.  :-(

They match pretty well with what others are reporting as well. These are the times l8nc reports the line is OFFLINE: 02:46 04:46 10:18 11:12 18:50 and the delay to being ONLINE is usually 4 minutes.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: WilliamG on September 15, 2006, 07:48:35 pm
I thought I'd just chime in to say I haven't been suffering these disconnects since my initial (and horrible) two weeks on LLU.

I also haven't been following the thread closely,so I'm not sure if anyone has figured out why some users are getting disconnected whereas others are unaffected?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 15, 2006, 08:18:52 pm
Disconnect no. 6 @ 20:06 for 8 minutes. Definately one of the worst days for me.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 15, 2006, 08:25:21 pm
Mine disconnected from 20:02 until 20:07 on that occasion.

Just for giggles, during the 18:45 outage I pulled out my old router and connected that up to see what would happen during the downtime. It actually managed to sync with the exchange at the full 8 meg which considering it gave me loads of hassle most of the time I used to use it is an achievment  :-o
anyway, as I expected it didn't manage to establish a PPP connection but sadly doesn't give anything useful in it's router logs to contribute to the thread either  :-(
I always regretted buying that router. It gave me hassle back then and hasn't redeemed itself by giving me some useful logs. I clearly wasn't thinking straight when I chose that one.  :-D  :-P


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 16, 2006, 01:32:34 am
I always regretted buying that router. It gave me hassle back then and hasn't redeemed itself by giving me some useful logs. I clearly wasn't thinking straight when I chose that one.  :-D  :-P
Don't you just know that there's a Tiscali network engineer saying those exact same words right about now? :D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: glloyd on September 16, 2006, 10:19:44 am
I know it's no consolation but Tiscali retail customers are also getting the same disconnect problems.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 16, 2006, 10:47:40 am
That's worrying - it means its a much bigger problem that just the PN connections which is the impression I have had so far. I would summise Tiscali are struggling to find out what the problem is and may have been for some time which does not bode well for a fix any time soon.

FYI 1 drop so far today @ 05.26


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: pwebb on September 16, 2006, 11:31:06 am
I know it's no consolation but Tiscali retail customers are also getting the same disconnect problems.

We have been working closely with Tiscali to get to the bottom of this one, and at the moment `we both have a lot of debugs running and are exchanging lots of information to get to the bottom of this.

I note from your post that you think Tiscali residential customers are also impacted, I'd be interested if you have any examples of this, as currently Tiscali have told us that it's only us that has this issue.

Phil


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 16, 2006, 12:53:24 pm
Disconnected last night from around 11ish till at least 1 in the moning.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 16, 2006, 06:19:07 pm
I spoke to a Tiscali user today, and he hadn't seen the disconnections.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 17, 2006, 10:38:00 pm
Hi

Just had a PPP disconnection at 22:33, this followed about a minute of no internet traffic and it took around 4 minutes before PPP came back.

:(  How long is this going to go on for?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: NB on September 18, 2006, 08:27:39 am
Probably until April next year when BT are allowed to compete on price.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 18, 2006, 09:42:59 am
Surely before then we'll either have all banded together to start our own ISP and working LLU network to ensure we never deal with Tiscali and NTL again or we'll have gone and sorted the problem ourselves.  :-D  :-P


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: CrystalFire on September 18, 2006, 09:56:19 am
Coffee, biscuits and a "bit" to chomp on in between for anyone? :roll:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 18, 2006, 07:35:44 pm
Today has been a BAD, BAD day!   :x

The disconnections are just about hourly now, and the recovery times are getting longer - averaging about 10 minutes this PM.  I've got sod-all work done today due to this...aah, what's the point of ranting about it, it doesn't make any bloody difference.

CrystalFire, a coffee would be nice - thankyou.

(http://anarion.punt.nl/upload/k_Irish-coffee.jpg)

 8-)



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 18, 2006, 10:19:59 pm
Had huge downtime from around half 7 till 10.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 19, 2006, 11:41:53 am
 :x :x :x :x

This morning I've had disconnections from 9:01 to 9:06, 9:13 for 4 sec, 9:34 to 9:39, 10:00 to 10:06 and 10:25 to 10:30!

I don't know what the hell they're doing but it's getting worse, not better.  Each disconnection seems to last for exactly 5 minutes with an average of 25 minutes uptime in between.

I've lost count of how many weeks this has been going on, and frankly I'm stunned that PN/Tiscali STILL haven't traced the problem.

I'm equally stunned that PN have the cheek to continue charging customers for a service that is so bad it's unusable.  If I charged my customers for that poor a service I'd be completely bereft of business and bankrupt by now.





Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 19, 2006, 08:35:02 pm
So am I the only one who now thinks the problem's back in PlusNet's network?

Since they enabled all the debugging the disconnections have been coming thick and fast. Four times already since 6.30 *sigh*


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 19, 2006, 10:24:46 pm
well, this stinks. I've just been over in the forums on www.plus.net and found a thread entitled "Time to fight back??" (http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48522).
The thread touches on refunds for loss of service and intermittent connections. According to a PN staff post on page 3 of the thread, the official corporate policy on financial compensation for our random disconnections is:

"The refunds on the Tiscali platform are only for complete loss of connection that has lasted in excess of 7 days. There are currently no plans to refund those who are experiencing an intermittent connection fault."

What kind of pathetic policy is that? We are paying good money here for a service that isn't giving us good value for money. it's DEFECTIVE. If I add up all of the offline time for today alone, I'm looking at 1 HOUR 5 minutes. That doesn't sound much but soon adds up if you're getting that kind of downtime however intermittent EVERY DAY. Yet the jokers at PN think it's perfectly fine to let their customers pay full price for a dodgy service and not pay a penny of compensation even after a fault is resolved.

I know someone will defend the company by saying "ADSL is not a guaranteed service and there is no SLA" but let's be realistic here. NO telecommunications service is GUARANTEED to work ALL THE TIME. Even a leased line with an SLA needs repairing from time to time thus you lose 100% uptime. Once that line is fixed again, compensation is given for the outage regardless of duration experienced.

How on earth can PN justfy giving compensation for complete loss of service while not offering a penny for an intermittent connection issue? In both cases the connection is BROKEN, leaves you to some degree WITHOUT a connection and needs to be fixed. Compensation should apply in both situations but at different rates. Someone completely offline should get the highest level of compensation while intermittent outages should be subject to a lower amount depending on time offline in the month e.g offline for the entire month = credit of that month's package payment, offline 25% of the month = 25% of that month's payment credited.

For some people here they will have been moved over to LLU only to suffer random disconnects from day one.

I remember when I got my phone line installed. The BT guy installed a linebox and ran cable to the box at the end of the street. he couldn't complete the job and it was left for 3 MONTHS broken, yet when they finally finished the installation I got credit for the time without service. Sure BT HAVE to repair and maintain voice faults no questions asked but if they can offer a credit, why the hell can't PN? Surely compensation is a better option than all affected customers getting sick and LEAVING. Surely the lower profits would easily be recouped again after the fault is fixed and the customer base is happy. What happened to the honest, customer focused ISP I joined all those years ago. PATHETIC  :x
We're just being treated like crap at the moment. I hate to say it but I can't see things improving.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 20, 2006, 07:33:19 am
Hi

While I have been lucky and my disconnects are not severe (only a drop for a few minutes or a stall of 30 seconds or so) I completely agree. If you are using your connection for VoIP or gaming or for a constant VPN into work any drop of connection has a big effect on what you are doing and something should be offered by PlusNet in way of compensation.

Still regardless of PlusNets "case by case" refunds or lack off, you still have a contract with PlusNet and that contract is to supply a service that works and a problem such as this I am sure would allow you to cancel that contract and for PlusNet to cough up and pay for any activation costs you then incur moving elsewhere.  There are threads over at www.adslguide.org that explain your options.

So much for PlusNet's revamping of customer service and support as there has been no dialogue recently here about the disconnections from staff.

I notice a service status telling us we may now end up connecting to a different gateway, THN-AG2, which is suppose to help in better monitoring of the platform and "compare the performance of the Cisco equipment against our existing equipment" which sort of sounds like PlusNet are thinking it's their own equipment causing it.  We shall see.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 20, 2006, 01:33:52 pm
So... anyone been connected to the new gateway yet?  And has it made a difference?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 20, 2006, 01:39:34 pm
Just disconnected but still on the old gateway. Not sure if all reconnects should go on it or just a random sample.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 20, 2006, 03:55:23 pm
Hi

According to the latest service announcement around half of LLU users are on the new gateway, however PlusNet have seen a disconnect for users regardless of the gateway so ruling out their own equipment, looks like it will just go back to Tiscali.  Will this ever be resolved?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 20, 2006, 05:52:47 pm
The latest SS about LLU users not being able o connect is something that happened to me when I disconnected earlier. The reason I had to disconnect was I had no internet access for about 1.5 hours and a PPP reset did not give the correct IP (I got a BT one with BT DNS servers). I had to reboot the rooter a few times before I was assigned the correct IP but it has been stable since then (no further disconnections).


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 20, 2006, 06:30:20 pm
Just as well I was out this afternoon. Had a huge dropout for about 5 hours. No loss of sync.

Bob Vaughan


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 20, 2006, 06:32:11 pm
@Bob - what time did you lose your connection?

See my graph http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=6837db66b323d5d5f101d3e5d096533b


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bobvaughan on September 20, 2006, 06:38:38 pm
 Have a look at my graph

 http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=ab0aa04b0edcb891f05a3c452d295374

Looks to start at the same time as yours. But finishes a bit earlier I think.

(Edit. Changed the link to my graph)

Bob


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 20, 2006, 11:35:51 pm
 :x more disconnects :x
This time I'm talking to a friend on Yahoo Messenger and listening...well...TRYING to listen to an online radio station.
I'll be off to bed shortly to drown my sorrows, and curse whatever is causing this problem so I don't have the patience right now to get accurate disconnect times.

For those interested in comparing drops, my L8NC graph is at http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=d2e1a2f27c7e7e64db2d719bdd91fd38

When I've calmed down, had a good night's sleep and no longer feel like putting my fist through some expensive highly sophisticated Tiscali network equipment, I'll post some proper accurate times. For now though, I'm better off not spending too much time dwelling on this as I only get more frustrated with every day. If this keeps going on much longer I'll have to find a way to a stable connection just to maintain my sanity. There's only so much a guy can take.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: mr_chris on September 20, 2006, 11:39:27 pm
Have you tried rebooting to get on the new LLU gateway. I'm not sure what it shows up as in a traceroute yet.. but it will be different from the one you're on curently. It would be good to see if this actually fixes the problem or whether the problem persists.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 20, 2006, 11:54:51 pm
Have you tried rebooting to get on the new LLU gateway.

I did try that earlier, yes. My L8NC graph for the day shows a drop at about 19:50 GMT which is when I rebooted. I did a trace to a couple of sites before rebooting and did traces to the same sites again after the reboot. The traces too exactly the same route before and after. I found shortly after testing, the latest service status which seems a little worrying:

"Due to a problem with the Cisco equipment causing customers to be assigned an incorrect IP address this has been taken out of service. If any customers are still connected and seeing the wrong IP address we would advise them to disconnect and reconnect and this will assign the correct IP address. "

See http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1158773784.htm for the full post.

It turns out then that the new Cisco gateway has been retired quicker than it entered service due to configuration issues causing problems with assignment of IP addresses. That being the case, everything had probably been put back to normal when I rebooted so it's unlikely my routing will change.  :-(

I wonder if we're going to find out anything more about this from the same service status update:

 "A major incident on Tiscali's network around midday caused disconnections for our LLU customers and problems reconnecting. The cause of this is currently under investigation by Tiscali but appears unrelated to this problem."

The incompetence at Tiscali really is quite astonishing  :x

In a happier frame of mind I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry!!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: mr_chris on September 20, 2006, 11:59:53 pm
Oh damn. I haven't seen that Service Status notice, sorry. :(

Hopefully they'll sort it and then LLU customers can try it.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Lassar on September 21, 2006, 01:48:49 pm
Chuckle !

Guess what ! :? :? :?

I got an SMS earlier on saying that they had applied changes to my line in attempt to resolve the situation.

After speaking to John on the customer service help desk it appears that they have again dropped my line speed to 1Mb.  After explaining to John that this had been done before and made no difference it took him 5 seconds to check my account and see that this had already been done and no change in line stability had occurred.

IMO this is total incompetance by the faults department, at the end of the day I would rather have a 6Mb intermittent line than a 1mb UNUSABLE for online gaming line!

I have no faith anymore in PN, after this i honestly think that there is incompetence on both sides and we will never get a active resolution to this issue.

I have now been told that it could take 24-72 hours to change my line back, i have also requested to be changed back to the BT IPstream service which has the benefits of no interleaving and rock solid stablity.  Yes it was only 2Mb however it was more than adiquate for my uses.

Perhaps if BT get there act sorted I could benefit from a max (BT)DSL service in future.

Yours in disgust !

Lassar


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Lassar on September 21, 2006, 04:39:32 pm
Just had my ticket returned from PN to say that I am being moved back to the BT IPStream service !

Down side it will take upto 14 days to complete :(

w00t *Lassar stands victorious*

I would advise all other customers to do the same thing.

Lassar


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 22, 2006, 12:20:58 am
I'm feeling much more calm and rational today so here we go with an update :-D
Thursday was a better day for me with fewer random disconnects than recent days. In total I had 7 drops through the day. They occured during the following times:

02:17 - 02:21
06:57 - 07:02
09:43 - 09:47
10:48 - 10:53
14:29 - 14:36
16:53 - 16:57
18:34 - 18:37

I have seen days previously when I've gone with up to 20 disconnects while other days I see as few as 7, so it's not an unusual set of results. Just for the record, my router is still connected to the ERX gateway rather than the new Cisco.  :-)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 22, 2006, 12:23:49 am
The new Cisco was removed yesterday, so you won't be connected to that :)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 22, 2006, 12:29:16 am
The new Cisco was removed yesterday, so you won't be connected to that :)

yep. I read a reply over in the official plus.net forums from Dave T that mentioned it wasn't taking any new connections.

The post can be found at http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?p=360085#360085

Apparently it's still connected and is being used by about 1000  users, but it doesn't seem to have got us much closer to a solution. At least it's gone some way to rule out an incompatibility with the Juniper ERXs so that's a good thing :-D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 22, 2006, 06:32:52 am

After speaking to John on the customer service help desk it appears that they have again dropped my line speed to 1Mb.  After explaining to John that this had been done before and made no difference it took him 5 seconds to check my account and see that this had already been done and no change in line stability had occurred.


Thats the problem I was getting - Faults dept was changing my line profile - higher SNR = lower speed. Supprise this made no difference to the ppp data issues!  After talking to James Bailey - the ticket was closed to stop this confusion.

Phil


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 22, 2006, 07:58:05 am
Hi

Quote
Thats the problem I was getting - Faults dept was changing my line profile - higher SNR = lower speed. Supprise this made no difference to the ppp data issues!  After talking to James Bailey - the ticket was closed to stop this confusion.

Which means that customer support are still untrained and/or don't get briefed to keep them upto date.  :x  They also know so little about the products they support that they have little or no troubleshooting skills to work out that a PPP disconnect will not be fixed by playing with ADSL line parameters.  They are also still not taking the time/or given the time to read all previous tickets.





Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 22, 2006, 05:49:48 pm
Huge dropout last night, was down from 8ish to midnight.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 22, 2006, 05:50:09 pm
had another one as i was typing the above message


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 22, 2006, 07:53:47 pm
Just had a strange one. Just after 18:45, I had another drop. That one lasted about 5 minutes like the usual drops but this time when the PPP reconnected I connected using lo0.thn-ag2.plus.net (new Cisco). No IP assignment issues for me though so looks like that might be solved.

My router had the correct static IP, the Cisco as my default gateway and PN DNS servers set up but I had problems getting to certain sites through a browser. Microsoft, Google and Hotmail were fine but other sites wouldn't come up. The notable ones that I tried were bbc.co.uk and amusingly the forum Marco loves to hate. Maybe the guide forum is banned now by default through the Cisco  :-P

Anyway, I took a couple of traces to show what was happening:

BBC homepage
Code:
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.228.155]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  my.router [192.168.1.1]
  2    33 ms    33 ms    48 ms  lo0.thn-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.87]
  3    35 ms    34 ms    33 ms  gi1-16.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.5.225]
  4    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  ge0-0-0-22.ptn-gw1.plus.net [212.159.4.1]
  5    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  gi1-1-22.ptn-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.6]
  6    34 ms    35 ms    35 ms  rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.25]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    35 ms    34 ms    35 ms  212.58.238.33
  9    35 ms    35 ms    35 ms  pos6-0.rt0.mh.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.30]
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *     ^C


ADSLGuide
Code:
Tracing route to adslguide.org.uk [80.249.99.120]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  my.router [192.168.1.1]
  2    33 ms    33 ms    34 ms  lo0.thn-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.87]
  3    34 ms    34 ms    35 ms  gi1-16.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.5.225]
  4    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  ge0-0-0-23.pte-gw1.plus.net [212.159.4.25]
  5    34 ms    35 ms    34 ms  gi1-1-22.pte-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.7]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8     *     192.168.1.1  reports: Destination net unreachable.

Trace complete.

When this happened I logged into my router and after noting the settings and looking through my logs, disconnected the PPP manually then immediately reconnected again as a test. This time I was reconnected to the ERX and everything started working properly again:

BBC Homepage
Code:
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.228.155]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  my.router [192.168.1.1]
  2    35 ms    36 ms    36 ms  lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.123]
  3    34 ms    34 ms    33 ms  ge0-0-0-103.ptn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.3.18]
  4    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  gi1-1-22.ptn-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.6]
  5    35 ms    42 ms    34 ms  rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.25]
  6    34 ms    35 ms    34 ms  212.58.238.133
  7    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  212.58.238.33
  8    35 ms    36 ms    36 ms  pos6-0.rt0.mh.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.30]
  9    35 ms    35 ms    36 ms  virtual0.mh.bbc.co.uk [212.58.228.155]

Trace complete.


ADSLGuide
Code:
Tracing route to adslguide.org.uk [80.249.99.120]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  my.router [192.168.1.1]
  2    36 ms    39 ms    37 ms  lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.123]
  3    34 ms    34 ms    37 ms  ge0-0-0-103.ptn-gw1.plus.net [84.92.3.17]
  4    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  ge0-0-0-22.pte-gw1.plus.net [212.159.4.9]
  5    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  gi1-1-22.pte-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.7]
  6    36 ms    34 ms    35 ms  lonap-gw1.thdo.ncuk.net [193.203.5.142]
  7    35 ms    36 ms    36 ms  gi0-2-10-star1.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.9]
  8    35 ms    35 ms    36 ms  iota2.ncuk.net [80.249.99.120]

Trace complete.

This one is definately a PN issue so hopefully these traces will give the comms guys some help if others are being affected like this through the Cisco  :-)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 22, 2006, 09:24:57 pm
bigrobcx - had exactly the same problem as you.  Have posted on the plusnet community forum to ensure others see the problem (including plusnet staff).
Noticed that my l8nc graph showed me as disconnected during the time I was on the cisco router, so I guess there is still the problem of it giving out the wrong IP address (forgot to check which address I'd been given before disconnecting).


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 22, 2006, 09:44:21 pm
Hi

There has been a service announcement about the Cisco router coming back on line and that some people were getting wrong Ips again but should now be fixed.

Crazy isn't it that one minute it's not a problem with their routers after seeing disconnects on the Cisco, and now it might be (probably because Tiscali are washing their hands of it) so we are back to being shunted over to the Cisco router again.  So us LLU customers are just guinea pigs while PlusNet and Tiscali play musical routers. 

There is something very wrong with them not being able to fix this and perhaps they need to employ someone who knows what they are doing to look at the network, but I suspect that costs money that no one is willing to spend!

I also shudder how the wording in the service announcement seems to indicate the best we can hope for is something more stable but never completely stable as from the service release they say, "Service across this gateway has shown increased stability and we have therefore taken the decision to leave the router in service over the weekend to allow for further analysis."  So PlusNet will settle for increased stability then, i.e. still not stable but not as bad? 

Question to PlusNet, it doesn't matter if stability is increased, that's not good enough, it's either stable or it isn't, period.  If the LLU can’t be made stable and we continue to be on a second rate broadband service, we should pay second-rate prices, not the full product price, and be given the option to move back to BTw.






Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 22, 2006, 09:56:09 pm
seems to have happened again.  no disconnect, IP is the right one, but had trouble accessing some sites, got similar tracert problems, l8nc shows a red period and gateway checker showed me back on the cisco router.  disconnected and reconnected and tracert is fine and gateway checker shows me back on ptn-ag1


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 22, 2006, 09:59:16 pm
same sort of thing happening for me too - disconnected at 3pm, didn't reconnect until I rebooted the router at 6pm.
I'm on ag2 now, ping ag2 now only 14mS! (ag1 best was 23mS)

Still problems getting to bbc.co.uk: firefox gets there in the end but it freezes for 10 seconds without doing anything. No, now it's gone again, I can't browse bbc.co.uk at all. I can still ping it though:
Code:
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.228.155]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router
  2    13 ms    14 ms    14 ms  lo0.thn-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.87]
  3    14 ms    14 ms    14 ms  gi1-16.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.5.225]
  4    15 ms    14 ms    16 ms  ge1-0-0-23.ptn-gw1.plus.net [212.159.4.17]
  5    14 ms    15 ms    16 ms  gi1-1-22.ptn-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.6]
  6    15 ms    13 ms    16 ms  rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.25]
  7    18 ms    14 ms    15 ms  212.58.238.149
  8    14 ms    14 ms    14 ms  212.58.238.33
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10    15 ms    17 ms    15 ms  virtual0.mh.bbc.co.uk [212.58.228.155]
Also, I can get to tfl.gov.uk but not to journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk
and I can't get to l8nc.com either.
Is it something with uk dynamic web sites in particular?
Is this the IP address problem? I'm still on my usual static IP.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: kerryk on September 22, 2006, 10:25:00 pm
Chuckle !

Guess what ! :? :? :?

I got an SMS earlier on saying that they had applied changes to my line in attempt to resolve the situation.

After speaking to John on the customer service help desk it appears that they have again dropped my line speed to 1Mb.  After explaining to John that this had been done before and made no difference it took him 5 seconds to check my account and see that this had already been done and no change in line stability had occurred.

IMO this is total incompetance by the faults department, at the end of the day I would rather have a 6Mb intermittent line than a 1mb UNUSABLE for online gaming line!

I have no faith anymore in PN, after this i honestly think that there is incompetence on both sides and we will never get a active resolution to this issue.

I have now been told that it could take 24-72 hours to change my line back, i have also requested to be changed back to the BT IPstream service which has the benefits of no interleaving and rock solid stablity.  Yes it was only 2Mb however it was more than adiquate for my uses.

Perhaps if BT get there act sorted I could benefit from a max (BT)DSL service in future.

Yours in disgust !

Lassar
You're lucky, a whole 1 Mb!  :-o

I've been suffering from the several (dozens) of disconnections each day and so far all PN have done has made the problem worse, and often resulting in a total loss of service for 3 or 4 days (less than the 7 day compensation trigger suspiciously).  The latest changes in the fumbled attempt to resolve the problem resulting in the identical mail as above, except now I'm stuck at 190kBits/280kBits.  Considering I'm less than a mile from the exchange and the self same line was stable at 7600kBits/488kBits before the move to Tiscali in July (which I was neither informed about prior to the migration, nor gave agreement to) the problems are not related to attenuation or noise.  Changing routers, filters and other arrangements as requested seems like a fob off comment to me as it's obvious from reading here that PN have known about this problem for a very long time. :?

Not been able to get on here earlier as believe me, finding the web address for here from the PN support archive at 190kBit/s is a bit of a challenge.

Strangely tonight I'm on the lo0.thn-ag2.plus.net gateway too, but most web sites appear to be working (slooowly), which is not the case this morning.  No chance of Skype, gaming, chat or anything useful though at this rate.  Dial-up with compression on my old ISDN line was quicker. :-(

I've been years with PN / Force9 dial up with almost perfect service, shame that seems to be changing for the worse.  I don't think I have much option to be cancel and find another competent ISP, and leave the arguments about early termination and breach of contract (on PN's part) to some legal beagles to sort out.  Perhaps PN will resolve the issue, but after 8 weeks of this, I don't have much confidence any more.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 22, 2006, 11:15:12 pm
hey.....I'm not liking this. While trying to get to journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk I found it timed out too. I just thought the site was down earlier so continued working away. I've been doing some trip planning and ticket ordering tonight so I've been on the computer for a good 3 hours and haven't really taken much notice of what the router has been doing.
Turns out I can't get to BBC and other sites again.

Looking at my logs, I had another disconnect around 21:22. I didn't notice that one so that must have happened while I was away from the computer for a few minutes.
On further investigation i'm back on the Cisco again so other sites are broken too.
Sorry PN, I'm not putting up with musical routers. If both worked properly I wouldn't care but now everytime I get disconnected I not only have to cope with the downtime but I've also got a good chance of finding my internet connection doesn't work right when it comes back up.

So for the forseeable future it looks like we're going to have to keep doing manual disconnects/reconnects to get attached back onto the ERX.
I'm not going to be putting up with that for long. My connection is working WORSE now. At least before I had full connectivity even if it did fall over randomly. :x

Come ON PN. Slightly more stable isn't enough. Get that Cisco configured correctly Surely it's not rocket science  :x :x


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 23, 2006, 10:03:19 am
Hi

I wonder if PlusNet could answer some questions regarding this long-standing problem:

  • Why are we being used as Guniea Pigs PlusNet?  You have not asked your customers if they would be willing to connect to a rushed install of a new router that hasn't itself been tested or configured correctly to help in your testing.
  • How can you draw any conclusions from using the alternative Cisco router if that isn't working correctly itself?
  • Why the lack of service announcements about the current routing problems on the new router?
  • How long are you prepared to mess your customer's around offering a second rate service charging them the full price? What is your deadline for resolving this problem?  It can't go on indefinitely.
  • Will PlusNet confirm that the measure used to decide the problem is fixed is for the platform to return to being completely stable?  Or, as a recent announcement seems to suggest, you will be accepting better stability (i.e. still not completely stable) as acceptable.
  • When will support staff be properly briefed and trained to know about this problem and so stop incorrectly changing line profiles for anyone who raises a ticket about the PPP disconnects?

What’s to bet these questions go unanswered?





Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 23, 2006, 04:38:07 pm
Just had a PPP disconnect while maintaining sync when connected to the Cisco.

Guess the problem's back with Tiscali :-(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 23, 2006, 05:28:48 pm
Just had a PPP disconnect while maintaining sync when connected to the Cisco.

Everything looks fine in my router logs. I wasn't affected by that drop but I have seen reports of disconnects while we were all going through the ERX that didn't affect me either. Just one or two that I remember, but on those occasions my link either just stalled for 30 seconds or wasn't affeted at all so I'm not ready to say that things are definately improved for me on the Cisco.

I just hope we're not going to end up having to choose between full internet connectivity with frequent drops or fewer drops and certain websites not working. Two features that are missing from the list of "benefits" with Tiscali LLU that you can experience by simply rebooting your router  :roll:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 23, 2006, 05:41:48 pm
Well I've finally got back on the ERX and I'm actually breathing a sigh of relief.   I was being disconnected roughly every 20 minutes when on the Cisco.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 23, 2006, 07:53:22 pm
I get the disconnects at random times but i can guarentee i get one at around 7.30-8.00 pm, however if i unplug my modem and then plug it back in again i lose sync completely. I'm using dial up at the moment to type this.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Graham W on September 23, 2006, 08:13:13 pm
Has it always done this 7:30/8:00pm disconnect? Even when other people weren't? Are you on LLU? What about your central heating boiler? What time is the boiler set to switch off?
Questions....


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 23, 2006, 08:19:33 pm
I've been informed we don't have one, we have central heating but this is never on over the summer. Iv'e been getting these disconnects more and more often always at around the same time and it seems that they were only since iv'e been moved to LLU. I do however get random hangs like people have been describing during the day where the sync light stays on but there is no net traffic.

Connection finally returned at 1.30am today.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 01:05:04 pm
Wierd iv'e just have my connection drop and then when i tried logging back in i kept getting a invalid username or password error, this kept happening for about 10 minutes before it logged me back in again.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 24, 2006, 01:06:04 pm
Hi

Just had a rather bad PPP disconnect at 12:50.  Watching the router try and get back it just kept saying "Bad username and password".  Finally came up after around 8 minutes!  My connection was with ERX rather then the Cisco they are testing with.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 24, 2006, 01:08:17 pm
There was a problem about 10-15 mins ago, but I don't think it was LLU related :D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: mr_chris on September 24, 2006, 01:08:37 pm
On IPStream here, it seems a Plusnet-wide problem rather than LLU-specific. Thread here (http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,3355.msg41060.html#msg41060)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 01:26:07 pm
I suffered a long disconnect from 12:47 to 13:00 too. I left my router connected to the Cisco overnight and the drop has forced me back onto the Juniper. Although the Cisco was much more stable for me there is still something affecting all gateways globally.

During the downtime, my router was logging a mix of authentication failures and peer termination of LCP:

"Authentication failure" PPP startup
Code:
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:06 - Using interface ppp0
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:06 - Connect: ppp0 <-->
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:06 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:06 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:06 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1492
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - Remote message: Authentication failed
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - CHAP authentication failed
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - LCP down.
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - apps set the adsl with value 0
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - , the count is 2
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - the wan_ip_existing is 0
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - Connection terminated.
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:53:36 - Exit.

"LCP Terminated by peer" PPP startup
Code:
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:06 - Using interface ppp0
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:06 - Connect: ppp0 <-->
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:06 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:06 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:06 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1492
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:10 - LCP terminated by peer
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:10 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:13 - Connection terminated.
Sun, 2006-09-24 12:56:13 - Exit.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 02:25:40 pm
Just had another disconnect. 14:13 to 14:20. At 14:17 it reconnected and dropped again after 1 minute 20 seconds.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 24, 2006, 02:29:03 pm
That's three this afternoon...    latency is also unstable. With a bit of luck it'll bust completely and force them to find the problem!  Only joking   :cry:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 02:39:17 pm
dropped me at 14.35 to 14.39


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 02:44:24 pm
yep. 14:34 -14:35 for me. Looks like it's going to be a bad day today on the ERX.  :cry:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 24, 2006, 03:01:39 pm
Two more!!  I hope the network guys are watching it.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: dhookham on September 24, 2006, 03:02:48 pm
Two more!!  I hope the network guys are watching it.

Do they get extra points for more disconnects? If so, today's are probably winning :evil:


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 03:03:47 pm
Guess what? yep...I saw those two aswell. 14:47 - 14:53 and 14:56 - 14:59. I've never had this many disconnects so close together before. I normally get up to 5 hours max between each one which although frustrating is much easier on the sanity than this frequency :(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 03:08:37 pm
another one at 15.06


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 24, 2006, 03:12:04 pm
Yep..  I reckon they're trying for a prize of some sort. It's definitely MUCH worse today than I've experienced so far. Maybe it's dying?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 03:19:48 pm
Once more at 15.18 to 15.20.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: dhookham on September 24, 2006, 03:22:20 pm
Yep..  I reckon they're trying for a prize of some sort. It's definitely MUCH worse today than I've experienced so far. Maybe it's dying?

Frankly I can't believe this fiasco has been going on for 3 months now, with no particular end in sight. There is clearly a major problem with the LLU set-up which nobody in the chain of blamestorming seems able to solve.

Instead of leaving customers to flounder, my view is that everyone with frequent disconnects should have been moved off LLU until the service was proven to work. An occasional disconnect is one thing... having dozens a day is completely unacceptable, and I struggle to understand how anyone in PlusNet can believe it is ok to leave customers in a position where it is deemed acceptable to use them as guinea pigs.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 03:25:01 pm
15:06 - 15:08, 15:14 - 15:16 and 15:20 - 15:22. Is somebody tinkering at PN? I've NEVER since seeing this problem had such an unreliable link. Looking at my logs, the 15:06 disconnect was a bit different to normal when it reconnected.
Code:
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:09 - Connect: ppp0 <-->
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:09 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:09 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:09 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1492
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:10 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:13 - Couldn't increase MTU to 32725
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:13 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:14 - Couldn't increase MTU to 32725
Sun, 2006-09-24 15:08:14 - CHAP authentication success

I got that "Couldn't increase MTU to 32725" error TWICE that time. Normally I only see it once.

We're definately going for some record here. 42 seconds between disconnects before we know where we are.  :roll:
The things I'd give to get back on thn-ag2 right now  :-(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: kerryk on September 24, 2006, 03:29:06 pm
Yep..  I reckon they're trying for a prize of some sort. It's definitely MUCH worse today than I've experienced so far. Maybe it's dying?

I do hope it is dying.  At least then it might encourage them to actually sort out the problem.  With my disconnected now running at average 6 mins up, 5 mins down doing anything today is a challenge.

Interestingly while the Cisco 7300 was in service, I didn't have a single disconnect for 14 hours, and absolute record.  Then they took it out of service 'cos the routing tables were wrong or something similar.  Now I'm back to the Jupiter ERX and unusable again.  I wonder if they'll take any notice of the correlation between change of servers and severity of the intermittent disconnects?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 24, 2006, 03:30:14 pm
I'm getting them every 6 minutes (almost exactly) at the moment.

Great fun when you're playing an online game and you keep coming back to find your team dead because you dropped just as they started a battle :(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 03:30:33 pm
another one at 15.25 for a minute, i was playing counterstrike source while it's happening.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: kerryk on September 24, 2006, 03:30:57 pm
Sorry about the duplicate post there  :roll: Guess what, another disconnect as I posted the message.  :x


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 24, 2006, 03:32:02 pm
Is there anyone fom PN watching this thread right now? It would be good to get some kind of acknowledgement that they know what's happening today.

Mine's dropping out every three minutes (to coin a phrase!!)   :-o


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 24, 2006, 03:33:55 pm
Dave T..  I can see you're there...   what's going on?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: CrystalFire on September 24, 2006, 03:38:38 pm
My L8NC chart has more stripes than a stick of Blackpool rock!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 03:44:06 pm
15:26 - 15:30. This is getting too much. I do hope someone at PN is working today and has noticed this is now much worse that it ever has been. At the moment from my point of view there appears to be several issues at work here with the disconnects. One, potentially MTU issues on PNs and/or Tiscali's network and some major incompatibility between Juniper ERXs and something else.....Huawei kit on Tiscali's network maybe?

The Cisco was giving me a really stable connection despite certain websites not working. Had I not had that single major disconnect I would have stayed on the Cisco.
It's the fact that even on there I had a disconnect that makes me believe that there's SOMETHING else helping to cause the issues in addition to quirks with the ERX.

If there is an ERX compatibility issue, maybe it's time to just decide to leave the ERXs on BTw provided links and run Cisco kit on the LLU platform. Obviously the disconnect issue still needs some work on the Cisco but that might be the only way to make progress towards a completely stable LLU platform. I don't care about PNs insistance that Cisco isn't their preffered hardware choice. If it works and that's the only way to make progress towards a stable connection for LLU users, do it and sort out the remaining issues causing disconnects.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 24, 2006, 03:46:26 pm
I suspect at the moment Networks are trying to get stuff back up after the power blip earlier.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 03:54:58 pm
no prizes.....yep. 15:48 - 15:53. I'm getting REALLY angry now  :x  :x
Does this qualify for a refund or is 5 - 10 minutes online time classed by PN as a working service?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 03:56:24 pm
short one 15.54 to 15.56, bloomin thing.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 24, 2006, 04:02:57 pm
Colin (or somebody)..  is there any chance that you might be able to contact PN and get us some feedback on this problem? People are suicidal! (well, almost)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 04:03:56 pm
15:56 - 16:00. This is [self censored] ridiculous. What the [self censored] do they think it is?  :x  :x  :x  :x
Come on PN. Get it FIXED.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 24, 2006, 04:37:09 pm
Quote
Service: ADSL Dial
Posted: Sun, Sep 24 2006 at 16:33:31
Subject: Broadband Disconnections - (Ref 34944) - UPDATE

This is an update to the previously reported problem causing customers provided on our LLU platform to be intermittently disconnected. A copy of the previous announcement can be found here:-

http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1158950427.htm


At approximately 12:45pm today there was a power outage at our Telehouse North datacentre which caused all of our LLU customers to be disconnected. Most customers were able to reconnect immediately however we have noticed that the frequency of disconnections for some of our customer has increased since reconnecting.

We are currently investigating the cause of this and will post a further update as soon as more information is available.


Kind Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
Customer Support


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 24, 2006, 04:37:55 pm
I suspect at the moment Networks are trying to get stuff back up after the power blip earlier.
Interestingly, it's only since the power outage that the disconnects have been so bad - are we back to the problem definitely being PlusNet's equipment again?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 04:59:18 pm
Quote
Service: ADSL Dial

At approximately 12:45pm today there was a power outage at our Telehouse North datacentre which caused all of our LLU customers to be disconnected.
Customer Support

Well, that explains the big outage I had at that time which put me back on the bloody ERX.
I was happier as progress seemed to be made with getting things more stable up to that point.  Now I'm having a hell of a day. Things seem to have settled down a bit mind. Hopefully I'll be able to use my router to do something productive now.

It does concern me that these power outages are occuring mind. A place like Telehouse should have backup power services...how come they're not kicking in and keeping stuff live?

It wasn't long ago that we heard about that other power problem, which granted was down to a genuine power supply problem and may not have been totally avoidable but it's scary to think that so much of the UK ADSL network infrastructure goes through Telehouse at some point and power down there is so hit and miss. I've pretty much lost all hope of an uninterrupted DSL link at this point  :-(


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 24, 2006, 05:00:54 pm
I can't believe I'm having to do this, but I'm posting to celebrate the fact that my connection has been up for A WHOLE HOUR!  :-o


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: kerryk on September 24, 2006, 05:04:26 pm
I suspect at the moment Networks are trying to get stuff back up after the power blip earlier.
Interestingly, it's only since the power outage that the disconnects have been so bad - are we back to the problem definitely being PlusNet's equipment again?

I guess power failures in Telehouse North (I've heard that name before in the previous major outage, seems the idea of corrective action as per their Quality System has been forgotten about) are not within the remit of Plusnet to fix, particularly as a fair proportion of ADSL traffic goes through there from many ISPs.

But in answer to your comment, the problem changed radically when the Cisco gateway was introduced (for the better) and fell back to the deplorable service seen before when that was taken down, so that I would say points the finger quite squarely to the Plusnet / Tiscali backhaul network.  Of course I could be wrong, but...


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 06:45:09 pm
Connection just dropped but this is one of those huge outages i get, never been this early though my connection was doing the same thing as earlier but for ages so i dropped the connection and retried. Keep getting the remote computer did not respond in a timely manner error's. I then removed my modem from the USB slot and replugged in as of now since 18.30 i have not been able to sync. I think these late evening disconnections are something else, but they're starting to get alot worse and i'm at a loss if i can see a correlation.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 24, 2006, 08:11:07 pm
Quote
We have now seen a stabilisation on the LLU platform and no major disconnections have been seen since approximately 4pm. We will continue to closely monitor the platform and will provide a further update on the disconnection issue tomorrow.

Kind Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
Customer Support

That must be sound of everyone collectively holding their breath that I can hear... my connection's been ok (really!) since I rebooted the router at 6pm to clear the mess left by the power outage. Has anyone seen the usual random disconnects this evening?

I'm sure I started noticing disconnect problems around the time the power failed at telehouse north last time. Maybe a complete reset of ALL the telehouse north boxes was all it needed? Perhaps restoring power to the boxes in a different order is all it takes to upset them.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 24, 2006, 08:25:59 pm
First packets lost since 6pm: only a 30 second disconnect this time, 20:19:24 to 20:19:50, not enough to make the router drop ppp for 5 minutes like usual.

I did wonder if saying anything would make it break...


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 08:32:09 pm
First packets lost since 6pm: only a 30 second disconnect this time, 20:19:24 to 20:19:50, not enough to make the router drop ppp for 5 minutes like usual.

All is good here for the moment. I've been stable since 4pm but I am expecting more disconnects. It's going to take more than a power failure to fix this problem!

I wasn't affected at all by that disconnect so I'm counting myself lucky. I'm sure another will be along shortly though  :-(



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 24, 2006, 09:18:16 pm
Connection is still down as of 21.18, can't find anything on my end to cause the disconnects.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 24, 2006, 09:42:20 pm
In response to KerryK's comments.

I agree - a place like telehouse SHOULD have a proper backup power feeds /protection.

Even the place where I work each server is feed from two power feeds (PDUs).

Phil


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 24, 2006, 10:00:07 pm
There it is! The first non power related random disconnect of the evening.....21:52 - 21:56


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 24, 2006, 10:50:22 pm
that's nothing - I've already had a big disconnect at 21:25 to 21:30, another little one at 21:42:15 to 21:42:40, and the big one you got too at 21:52 to 22:01.

It definitely has to settle down and readjust after each big disconnect; when it came back at 22:01 I had 3 minutes of long ping times and randomly dropped single packets too. If anyone at plusnet is interested I can send them a graph of the ping times which shows the detail much better than l8nc does. It can't be adsl2+ retraining as it never loses sync in the first place, so I've no idea what it's doing. Maybe it's the PPP-LCP "link quality determination phase"?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 25, 2006, 01:04:39 pm
Two so far today on the ERX...  (NB Simon!)..  12.12 to 12.16 and 12.59 to 13.02.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Janets on September 25, 2006, 01:34:00 pm
exactly the same as mine


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: morrisinc on September 25, 2006, 01:37:11 pm
Same here too.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 26, 2006, 07:51:48 pm
Been connected to ag2 all day today without a single drop so far.  Has anyone on ag2 had any problems or have we finally found the root of problem (the hated ag1 :x)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 26, 2006, 08:10:42 pm
I powered down my router overnight and reconnected again after the maintenace this morning. I've been connected to ptn-ag2 since 08:25 and so far without a single drop. The latest service status (http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1159294375.htm) talks of a drop on ptn-ag1 around 12:45 that wasn't replicated on ptn-ag2 so it sounds like ptn-ag1 has some issues.
I'm still monitoring things but so far it's looking good for me.

Looks like we're making some good progress  :-D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 26, 2006, 08:32:55 pm
I've been out all day today - just returned and powered up the router.  I'm on ag2 and speed is significantly lower (2200 as opposed to 2800-3050 normally) with intermittent very slow responses to most websites.  The connection hasn't dropped yet but the router need 3 tries before establishing connection from power-up.

Odd...



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: terminal on September 26, 2006, 10:17:26 pm
just had my first drop on ag2 (21:12:17) but re-connected immediately (21:12:21 - none of the old 5 minute delay). another drop at 21:18:03 and back at 21:18:04.  now back on ag1 (not sure which of those 2 drops put be back on it).

Also been getting a lot "failed to load" web sites this evening (as also reported on the PN forums http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48849 (http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48849))  After a few re-loads they load ok.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 26, 2006, 11:29:01 pm
not the resounding success I'd hoped for today.

on ptn-ag2 from 8:15 this morning, fine (but slow) for a little over 2 hours, when the connection dropped. Router wouldn't reconnect without a reboot, which meant waiting all day.

Finally got back onto ptn-ag2 this evening, and it lasted 27 minutes before the connection dropped. Again, router wouldn't reconnect without a reboot. Back on at 21:17, lasted 28 minutes before the connection dropped this time.

Speed (according to adslguide) is back to normal though, 7633 Kbps down, (still only) 518 Kbps up.

So, less disconnects than ag1 but worse when it does, so I spent most of the day disconnected. Let's hope tomorrow's better.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 27, 2006, 09:35:40 am
Hi

Quote
on ptn-ag2 from 8:15 this morning, fine (but slow) for a little over 2 hours, when the connection dropped. Router wouldn't reconnect without a reboot, which meant waiting all day.

I've been on ag2 since it went live solid now for 26 hours.  Although ag1 I was often connected for hundreds of hours and hardly ever saw complete PPP drops I would often find traffic stalling for 30 seconds or so around the time others saw a complete PPP drop.

The graphs for ag2 are flat, with some small packet losses reported in the early hours of this morning so I put that down to some maintenance somewhere, and I haven't seen any of the sudden stalls in traffic, backed up by the l8nc charts.  Speeds seem normal or perhaps a bit better than normal at 6.48Mb this morning for me.

Are you losing sync when your connection drops or just PPP?  What router do you have?  If the router is not reconnecting without a reboot perhaps the router is faulty or having a software crash?



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 27, 2006, 09:57:41 am
I've been on ag2 since it went live solid now for 26 hours.  Although ag1 I was often connected for hundreds of hours and hardly ever saw complete PPP drops I would often find traffic stalling for 30 seconds or so around the time others saw a complete PPP drop.

Everything is so far uneventful here too. I've now been online for just over 24 hours without a drop. I almost always suffered a complete drop with PPP connecting again about 5-10 minutes later so things are looking great for me. I'm not going to get too over excited yet but this is the longest I've managed to stay online through an ERX since I was first affected by the problems  :-D

I can confirm my L8NC graph shows slightly higher ping times early this morning from about 02:10 through to 02:35 so maintenance or congestion somewhere to blame on that one I think.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 27, 2006, 11:07:47 am
Quote
Are you losing sync when your connection drops or just PPP?
I think the sync light stays on - I didn't explicitly look last night unfortunately, I'll keep an eye on it this evening.

Quote
What router do you have?
Linksys WAG354G v2

Quote
If the router is not reconnecting without a reboot perhaps the router is faulty or having a software crash?
It almost always used to reconnect after an ag1 drop. When the disconnects first started happening, pretty much when I first got it, I phoned linksys who told me to exchange the router for another new one, which of course made no difference. So, this is the second identical brand new one I'm on.

It had a big disconnect this morning at 09:06 to 09:22, (did anyone else notice anything around then?) but then it reconnected on its own. It's been alright since, let's hope that's the last one.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 27, 2006, 03:49:21 pm
Weird if it's still happening for some people on ag2.  I've been up without a disconnect of any kind for nearly 36 hours now.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 27, 2006, 03:56:12 pm
Yes...  I'm on ag2..   look at the latency on the first and fourth hops in this file...


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 27, 2006, 03:57:18 pm
Which server is this??

gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 27, 2006, 09:20:13 pm
ptn-ag2 is horrible for me at the moment - packets now being lost on a regular 5.5 minute cycle, and a full ppp drop too, all in the last hour. It's been gradually getting worse all evening, so maybe it's contention at the exchange or something, but I don't remember it being ever this bad on ptn-ag1.

The attached plot of the last hour shows what I mean - the big red bit in the middle was the ppp disconnect.

Prior to that I had a full disconnect from 19:38 to 19:51.

(edit 23:32)
I'm on ptn-ag1 now and it looks loads better; I'll see what it looks like in the morning.

It's just so frustrating seeing everyone else congratulating themselves on pinning down the problem to the juniper, yet my connection is getting worse not better!


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 27, 2006, 11:58:03 pm
My second evening on ag2 (I've been away all day) is as bad as the first - line speed much slower than before (2.2mbps as opposed to 2.8 - 3.2mbps prior to the change), slow and intermittent access to certain sites - notably anything Plusnet - although this could be due to their DNS server problem, and a disconnect at 8:20PM lasting 4 minutes.

It's not right yet, people.   :roll:



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 28, 2006, 01:02:48 am
Very odd. I've had perfect 100% uptime since shifting onto the new ERX.  L8nc plots show the occasional small amounts of packet loss, but nothing major to worry about.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 28, 2006, 01:03:58 am
It's not right yet, people.   :roll:

I'd agree. It is wierd mind how some people are finding ptn-ag2 very stable yet others are having a worse time than they did on ptn-ag1.

I had been online constantly until a few moments ago since I connected to ptn-ag2 but looking at my latency graph for the evening, I am seeing a little packet loss. Since about 19:30 there is the odd blip on my graph for Wednesday showing about 2-4% packet loss. it's not much at all and certainly not noticable with browsing but it's there. The packet loss I'm seeing doesn't look like too much to worry about.

Between 04:00 and 18:00 there's no packet loss at all. The only other oddity I have is the slightly higher latency wednesday morning between 02:15 and 02:35.

Just as I typed this post, I very briefly lost sync. Everything came back up almost straight away.
My router logs show:

Code:
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:02 - ADSL link down
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:10 - ADSL G.994 training
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:15 - ADSL G.992 started
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:17 - device br0 left promiscuous mode
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:17 - Terminating on signal 15.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:17 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:17 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:19 - ADSL G.992 channel analysis
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:23 - ADSL G.992 message exchange
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:24 - Connection terminated.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:24 - Connect time 19323349.8 minutes.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:24 - Sent 55227153 bytes, received 140963206 bytes.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:24 - Exit.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:24 - ADSL link up, interleaved, us=640, ds=8157
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Plugin pppoa loaded.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - PPPoA Plugin Initialized
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Plugin pppoa called.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - PPPoATM setdevname_pppoatm - SUCCESS
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Options file - /etc/ppp/options.0.38.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - pppd 2.4.1 started by root, uid 0
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - setting line discipline hook
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - connect_pppoatm_ses...Enter
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - connect_pppoatm_ses: socket created fd - 0x6.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - connect_pppoatm_ses: setsockopt called.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - atm_connect (TX: cl 1,bw 0-0,sdu 16386; RX: cl 1,bw 0-0,sdu 1460,AAL 5)
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - connect_pppoatm_ses: connect successful.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Calling line discipline hook
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Setting pppoatm line discipline.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - vc encaps.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - using channel 2
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Using interface ppp0
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Connect: ppp0 <-->
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Couldn't increase MTU to 32725
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - LCP terminated by peer
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:37 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:40 - Connection terminated.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:50:40 - Exit.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Plugin pppoa loaded.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - PPPoA Plugin Initialized
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Plugin pppoa called.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - PPPoATM setdevname_pppoatm - SUCCESS
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Options file - /etc/ppp/options.0.38.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - pppd 2.4.1 started by root, uid 0
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - setting line discipline hook
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - connect_pppoatm_ses...Enter
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - connect_pppoatm_ses: socket created fd - 0x6.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - connect_pppoatm_ses: setsockopt called.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - atm_connect (TX: cl 1,bw 0-0,sdu 16386; RX: cl 1,bw 0-0,sdu 1460,AAL 5)
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - connect_pppoatm_ses: connect successful.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Calling line discipline hook
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Setting pppoatm line discipline.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - vc encaps.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - using channel 3
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Using interface ppp0
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Connect: ppp0 <-->
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:17 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1492
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:28 - Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:28 - Couldn't increase MTU to 32725
Thu, 2006-09-28 00:51:28 - CHAP authentication success

Different scenario to what I'm used to on ptn-ag1 but there's clearly something still not right. Definately a distinct red spike on my graph....odd


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 08:20:32 am
I had precisely the same yesterday afternoon..   a lot of high latency with a very short LLU disconnection that pushed me back onto the ag1. There's another server in the sequence (gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net) that is showing a lot of high unstable latency, and has been for a while. Simon is aware.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 28, 2006, 09:34:10 am
observations from last night:
on ptn-ag1, disconnect at 01:25, reconnected at 01:30 to ptn-ag2.
on ptn-ag2, disconnect at 02:34, reconnected at 02:40.
on ptn-ag2, disconnect at 06:04, reconnected at 06:05.

The disconnects on ptn-ag2 always coincide with these 5.5 minute ticks of high latency and packet loss that I mentioned previously. They're not visible on the plot for the next box on the route, ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw1, or when connected to ptn-ag1.

The sync light stays on during all the disconnects.

To switch routers I disconnect and reconnect just ppp, so the adsl line and session is common to both.

Could it be there's dodgy cards in both junipers? It's just which card you're connected to that determines whether you see the problems.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 09:45:38 am
This is a ping a second from about 9.30 today..  look at the worst ping times, second column from the right. The ag2 and the fourth hop are playing up.. sorry about the formatting..

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |

|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

|                     www.routerlogin.com -    0 |  661 |  661 |    0 |    0 |   16 |    0 |

|            lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net -    0 |  661 |  661 |   15 |   31 |  469 |   31 |

|            ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw2.plus.net -    1 |  661 |  658 |   15 |   23 |   79 |   15 |

|             ge0-0-0-22.ptn-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  661 |  661 |   15 |   23 |   79 |   15 |

|               gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  660 |  660 |   15 |   30 |  266 |   31 |

|                  se3-0.pih-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  660 |  660 |   15 |   33 |   78 |   46 |

|                  vlan8.pih-gw4.plus.net -    0 |  660 |  660 |   31 |   34 |  109 |   31 |

|                        pih-al4.plus.net -    0 |  660 |  660 |   31 |   35 |   78 |   31 |

|                         portal.plus.net -    0 |  660 |  660 |   31 |   35 |   93 |   31 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

   WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir  ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 28, 2006, 09:49:14 am
Hi

I've been on the new juniper ptn-ag2 for 50 hours now.  Charts are attached for yesterday and today if they help anyone.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 09:54:19 am
Just going through a period of high latency..  look at the "worst" ping column



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 28, 2006, 09:54:36 am
Hi

It just goes to show that even connecting to the same Juniper people can have widely different experiences.  A problem perhaps on your route via the Tiscali/NTL network?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 28, 2006, 09:57:13 am
Hi

Note seeing anything unusual from here:

Code:
Tracing route to portal.plus.net [212.159.8.137]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  my.router [192.168.0.1]
  2    42 ms    35 ms    38 ms  lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.53]
  3    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw1.plus.net [84.92.3.105]
  4    35 ms    35 ms    35 ms  gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net [195.166.129.10]
  5    42 ms    44 ms    43 ms  se3-0.pih-gw1.plus.net [195.166.129.250]
  6    43 ms    43 ms    43 ms  vlan8.pih-gw4.plus.net [212.159.0.30]
  7    42 ms    58 ms    48 ms  pih-al4.plus.net [212.159.1.36]
  8    43 ms    42 ms    42 ms  portal.plus.net [212.159.8.137]



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 09:59:47 am
trouble is that's just one ping...   WinMTR pings every second until you stop it and it catches the dodgy periods..

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/winmtr.html


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 28, 2006, 10:01:42 am
Hi

Took the liberty of a tracert to your IP, not sure it helps but just the one hop and routing as expected.

Code:
Tracing route to * You  *
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  my.router [192.168.0.1]
  2    35 ms    35 ms    38 ms  lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.53]
  3    64 ms    86 ms    62 ms  ******** You **********


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 10:08:38 am
Restarted WinMTR about 5 mins ago..   another high latency period right now on ag2 and  gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net. I've no idea what that server is..  do you?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: LC100 on September 28, 2006, 10:17:48 am
Hi

Okay here are some results.  What I did notice that having a wireless connection caused some very high worst results all down the route, so switched to wired connection which was a lot better.  My ping chart at l8nc is still flat.

When you are being pinged from outside, is it your computer responding or your router?

Code:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                               my.router -    0 |  200 |  200 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|            lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |   31 |   38 |  438 |   31 |
|            ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |   31 |   32 |   78 |   31 |
|               gi1-1-22.ptn-gw5.plus.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |   31 |   31 |   32 |   31 |
|                      rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk -    0 |  200 |  200 |   31 |   34 |  219 |   31 |
|                          212.58.238.149 -    0 |  200 |  200 |   31 |   35 |  219 |   31 |
|                          212.58.238.157 -    0 |  200 |  200 |   31 |   31 |   47 |   31 |
|                          212.58.226.229 -    0 |  199 |  199 |   31 |   31 |   47 |   31 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir  ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 10:24:15 am
The router I think...   looks as though ag2 is showing the same from your endas well.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 28, 2006, 10:25:56 am
Since my disconnect at 00:50 my connection has been stable. I suspect there was some issue at my exchange, maybe with the DSLAM that caused me to lose sync. Just after my router reconnected, there was a single tiny blip of packet loss but from then till now nothing. My connection is stable and the latency graph shows no further packet loss using ptn-ag2.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: petervaughan on September 28, 2006, 10:26:36 am
When you are being pinged from outside, is it your computer responding or your router?

It depends entirely on how your router is configured (Nat/no-nat/bridged) and if the firewall passes ICMP packets through to your local network or not (most firewalls will not).

Many routers have an option to reply or not to pings/ICMP packets so normally it is the router that replies to the pings if configured to do so.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 11:03:46 am
Still showing slow response on hops 1 and 4..

Code:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                     www.routerlogin.com -    0 |  559 |  559 |    0 |    0 |   16 |    0 |
|            lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net -    0 |  559 |  559 |   15 |   28 |  422 |   32 |
|            ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw2.plus.net -    0 |  559 |  559 |   15 |   24 |   93 |   16 |
|             ge0-0-0-22.ptn-gw1.plus.net -    1 |  559 |  558 |   15 |   23 |   78 |   16 |
|               gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net -    1 |  559 |  557 |   15 |   29 |  265 |   31 |
|                  se3-0.pih-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  559 |  559 |   15 |   33 |   62 |   31 |
|                  vlan8.pih-gw4.plus.net -    1 |  559 |  558 |   31 |   33 |   78 |   31 |
|                        pih-al4.plus.net -    0 |  559 |  559 |   31 |   34 |   78 |   31 |
|                         portal.plus.net -    0 |  558 |  558 |   16 |   34 |   78 |   32 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir  ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 11:20:07 am
This is at about 11.17..   the latency shot up on everything..  it's almost as though there's something being recirculated around the internal servers and slowing them down..

Code:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                     www.routerlogin.com -    0 |  537 |  537 |    0 |    0 |   16 |    0 |
|            lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net -    0 |  537 |  537 |   15 |   31 |  765 |   31 |
|            ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw2.plus.net -    0 |  537 |  537 |   15 |   26 |  781 |   31 |
|             ge0-0-0-22.ptn-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  537 |  537 |   15 |   26 |  969 |   15 |
|               gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  537 |  537 |   15 |   32 |  985 |   31 |
|                  se3-0.pih-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  537 |  537 |   31 |   35 |  891 |   31 |
|                  vlan8.pih-gw4.plus.net -    1 |  536 |  534 |   15 |   35 |  781 |   31 |
|                        pih-al4.plus.net -    0 |  536 |  536 |   15 |   37 |  781 |   31 |
|                         portal.plus.net -    0 |  536 |  536 |   31 |   37 |  656 |   46 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir  ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 28, 2006, 11:59:26 am
I'm not seeing that at all.  But then, I seem to have a different path through the network.  Very odd.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                            192.168.1.61 -    0 |  279 |  279 |    0 |    0 |   20 |    0 |
|            lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag2.plus.net -    0 |  279 |  279 |   20 |   36 |  360 |   30 |
|            ge1-0-0-204.ptn-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  279 |  279 |   20 |   31 |  100 |   60 |
|               gi0-2-32.ptc-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  278 |  278 |   20 |   37 |  271 |   30 |
|                  se3-0.pih-gw1.plus.net -    0 |  278 |  278 |   30 |   38 |   90 |   30 |
|                  vlan8.pih-gw4.plus.net -    0 |  278 |  278 |   30 |   39 |  110 |   40 |
|                        pih-al4.plus.net -    0 |  278 |  278 |   30 |   40 |  130 |   40 |
|                         portal.plus.net -    1 |  278 |  277 |   30 |   39 |  110 |   40 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir  ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 12:15:56 pm
I noticed that LC was also on a different path. My route seems to be the one I always get on to (apart from the ag1/2).


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 28, 2006, 04:25:00 pm
Well, for the first time for a long time, no disconnects. My graph shows some strange latency "storms"...  anyone know what they are?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 28, 2006, 07:54:05 pm
Well, I'm stunned...

All day today with NO disconnects!

 :-o :-o :-o :-o

Fingers crossed it stays that way, it's too early to celebrate yet but we can but hope.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: CrystalFire on September 28, 2006, 10:08:37 pm
Me too!! Gone is the L8NC page with more stripes than a stick of Blackpool rock.  A nice horizontal band of yellow and some calming blue ripples across the top. Can we have more of this please?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 28, 2006, 11:26:45 pm
Aaargh! Everyone's got a good connection now except me!

when I'm on ptn-ag1 it's fine until it disconnects, which no doubt will continue until plusnet rebuild it early on saturday morning.

when I'm on ptn-ag2 it shows an absolutely rock-solid 5.45-minute cycle of high latency and packet loss, and then randomly, seemingly always at the high spot of the cycle, it disconnects me. The attached plot shows this. In the hope it's a separate, fixable, problem, I've added this to my ongoing support ticket.

I shouldn't have to do this though, but I have a cunning plan: if I detect ptn-ag2 in the traceroute output, I'm going to force the router to reconnect, so it gets back onto ptn-ag1. Repeat until successful. Does anyone know how to drive a linksys router's admin web page programmatically?


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Colin on September 28, 2006, 11:34:46 pm
Same way you drive any website automatically when it doesn't have an API - screen scraping and HTTP Requests from a script.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 29, 2006, 12:15:13 am
So far, so good - only one disconnect all day, at precisely 11PM and reconnection took place within 5 seconds.

I've been sacrificing a chicken at midnight every night for the last 3 weeks - looks like tonight's cluckbird's going to live to see another dawn.   :wink:



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: scarymonkey on September 29, 2006, 12:22:19 am
Andy

Routerstats might be just what you are looking for unless you want to write your own

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~vwlowen/internet/files.htm

I use it on my Netgear. The only problem I have is the min 5 second sampling interval. I would really like 1 second at the moment to really see how my SNR reacts when I loose sync


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Kritifile on September 29, 2006, 07:02:57 am
I've seen some weird things on my routerstats and don't know if it's the program or what happens when I lose sync.
Long line, officially, although in fact (if I have the same pair now) 3.3 km from the exchange true line length, attenuation 59 dB, did have a 3 mb bras, now dropped to 2.5 due to evening disconnects, all stats the same now apart from the disconnects.
So, I've been watching snr and attenuation and just before a resync, in the 2 minutes before, my snr goes up from around 0 (netgear) to 18 and my attenuation drops from 59 to 20ish. Then snr drops to negative figures and I lose sync.
BTW I'm not LLU, I'm on Max.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 29, 2006, 08:21:12 am
Scary..  you can change the sample frequency to anything you like in the configure page!   :-D


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: scarymonkey on September 29, 2006, 08:52:58 am
I had changed it to 5 seconds which is as low as the official version would go. John has sent me a version that does 1 second sampling which I shall use on a spare PC this weekend (won't be a problem as I won't be here either) a I will graph every 10 minutes...hopefully it will show better what is happening.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 29, 2006, 09:06:01 am
Routerstats might be just what you are looking for

thanks - that looks really good - I'll have a play with it over the weekend.

Unfortunately it doesn't support 'name of the next hop matches regexp' as an alarm condition (I know, some people want everything!) so I might end up writing my own anyway, but it definitely shows it's possible.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: scarymonkey on September 29, 2006, 09:07:27 am
No problem

If you contact John he may be able to add this as an option in a future build. From experience he is very quick and helpful - i emailed last night regarding sampling intervals and a new 'unofficial' build has already been made available for me. I can't thank him enough.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 29, 2006, 10:15:46 am
I'm slightly puzzled...  maybe someone can assist! If the Cisco on ag2 was replaced with an ERX which proved much more stable, how come the ERX on ag1 is also now more stable? The ag1 today is showing much less latency problems that the ag2 did yesterday and so far no disconnects.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: Loombucket on September 29, 2006, 10:18:01 am
We're not out of the woods yet, peeps.

Between 7:45 and 8:12AM today I had seven disconnects, each of a few seconds duration.  Shame after a good day and night.



Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: bigrobcx on September 29, 2006, 12:15:56 pm
I've had 35 hours online on ptn-ag2 so far and my latency graph is looking pretty good. Since that drop caused by a brief loss of sync the other day, it hasn't happened again, but I notice between about 3:35am and 4am this morning there was higher latency recorded. That took my graph from around 37ms response time to 85-95ms. No-one was using the link between those times so not sure what happened there.
Everything looks back to normal though from 4am onwards so maybe more maintenace or a device downstream having a problem.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: rdrake on September 29, 2006, 12:35:56 pm
Back on ag1 today...   two disconnects this morning and lots of very high spiky latency (which is always there whatever server I go through!)


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: andy_p on September 29, 2006, 12:38:31 pm
I've had 2 disconnects while on ptn-ag2 that left the router needing a reboot in the last 24 hours, both left the router in a funny state: sync light flashing (showing it's trying to reconnect) but the status page showing adsl connection was 'up' and the line noise margin showing a stupid big number (like -1).

I'm trying it on g.dmt instead of adsl2+ today to see if it's any better, maybe tiscali are messing with things at the exchange and it's a completely separate problem.


Title: Re: Random Disconnect.....
Post by: thepuffin on September 29, 2006, 12:43:48 pm
I find this whole situation very odd.

My PPP uptime is now 76 hours on ag2 without a single stall or disconnect.  The previous record on ag1 was about 3 hours.