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Plusnet Usergroup » All Users - The Open Forum » Plusnet Customer Service Issues » Plusnet Exchange Market based pricing policies
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Author Topic: Plusnet Exchange Market based pricing policies  (Read 20560 times)
Trentham Exchange User

Posts: 18

« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2010, 01:59:03 pm »

I'm sorry Phil, but Ofcom have told me that they set the classification for the Markets, and it is up to the industry to interprate what Exchange is in what Market based on how many LLU's are in the exchange. They initially published what Exchanges were in what Market over 2 years ago. Times have changed. Other players have moved into the Exchanges bringing them into a different Market under Ofcom rules,but ISP's including Plusnet are still sticking to the published list. This is a nonsence and is only detrimental to the consumer. I am sure that if the original published list contained an Exchange that was Market 3 in 2008 had a supplier pull out making it a market 2 under the definition, then the ISP's would soon do somthing about it!
jelv1

Posts: 2130

« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2010, 02:57:26 pm »

What did BT Wholesale say when you asked them why they are charging Market 2 prices for what you believe should be a Market 3 exchange?

jelv
Trentham Exchange User

Posts: 18

« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2010, 03:20:16 pm »

I have yet to speak with them, however my contract is with Plusnet who base their pricing structure on which market an Exchange is in. My Exchange is in Market 3 as defined by Ofcom, and I should therefore be charged Market 3 prices. It is up to Plusnet to ensure that they are paying the correct price to BT, and if the truth be known, I would suspect that they are, but are just hiding behind the Ofcom published Market lists from 2008, and overcharging their customers in the process..... alledgedly!!!
Trentham Exchange User

Posts: 18

« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2010, 03:58:41 pm »

Happy Days. I have had another email from Plusnet which says "We are very sorry for the latest response that you received from us. You should indeed be classified as a market 3 customer, as you have repeatedly iterated to us, which will take effect on your account from your next billing date. This will coincide with your migration to the Value package, and hence will be charged accordingly as a market 3 customer.

Once again, sorry for any inconvenience caused."

Well how many other consumers does this affect. I would say that if you are in a Market 2 it is worth checking how many LLU's there are because it now seems that Plusnet are doing what Ofcom told me they should, and that is to interpret which Exchange is in which Market dependent on the number of LLU's, and not on an out dated Ofcom list from 2008.

A victory for common sense.
JBailey

Posts: 2141


« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 08:17:05 am »

Hi there,

Trentham isn't a market 3 exchange as it does not serve over 10,000 residential properties (appreciate that the advice that you were given is contrary to this).

Also, apologies if it's already been pointed out, but Ofcom classify the market type, which neither we or BT Wholesale have any control over.

Drop me a PM with your username and I'll be happy to have a chat with the person that told you that you are on what should be a Market 3 exchange.

Kind Regards,

James Bailey
Complaints Manager
Plusnet
JBailey

Posts: 2141


« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2010, 08:22:23 am »

Just to add - if you're looking to take this further, you really do need to contact Ofcom.  We can't help you on this one I'm afraid.

Kind Regards,

James Bailey
Complaints Manager
Plusnet
JBailey

Posts: 2141


« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2010, 08:30:07 am »

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/wbamr07/statement/statement.pdf

Section 3.33, page 18.

Quote
Market 3 - those geographic areas covered by exchanges where there are
currently 4 or more Principal Operators present AND exchanges where there are
forecast to be 4 or more Principal Operators but where the exchange serves
10,000 or more premises.

Kind Regards,

James Bailey
Complaints Manager
Plusnet
Colin
Usergroup Member

Posts: 6339


WWW
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2010, 10:30:57 am »

I have to say, the way that is worded, I'd have read it as the bit about 10000 premises is only where there are forecast to be 4 or more principal operators...

Colin Ogilvie
Plusnet Usergroup Member
Using: Plusnet Extra
nadger
Usergroup Member

Posts: 481


« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2010, 10:36:02 am »

I've read it quite a few times and it's definitely one for the Plain English campaign.

I did notice that Orange LLU wasn't activated until 2010 but can't see dates for other providers.

Regards

John
Trentham Exchange User

Posts: 18

« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2010, 03:45:41 pm »

I have pm'd JBailey.
I think the definition is quite clear. It's an either or situation. Ofcom use the word AND to seperate the two sets of circumstances either of which make the exchange Market 3, and Plusnet use the word OR. Both definitions mean the same, and the. 10000 houses has no relevance if 4 llu's are in the exchange.
nadger
Usergroup Member

Posts: 481


« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2010, 04:22:12 pm »

As James has said you need to get Ofcom to change the market status of the Trentham exchange.

Plusnet will be charged as a Market 2 exchange and this dictates the price you pay.

Obviously I have no bias, either way, and did read definition as a Market 2 exchange but would be happy to be wrong - fortunately my own exchange (SMLBD) is very clearly Market 3.

Regards

John
Colin
Usergroup Member

Posts: 6339


WWW
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2010, 04:22:59 pm »

I believe Plusnet go on the data that Ofcom or BT published, not their own definitions.

Additionally, I also believe that if an exchange goes from Market 2 -> Market 3 status, it is not automatically updated and needs to be 'reclassified' by OFCOM / BT to enable the cheaper prices to be charged...

Colin Ogilvie
Plusnet Usergroup Member
Using: Plusnet Extra
Trentham Exchange User

Posts: 18

« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2010, 06:28:11 pm »

I have two emails from plusnet which agree that Trentham is Market 3 and after the second one I closed the ticket only for the customer service reopening it to ensure that when my account changed to the value package on 5th July  a Market 3 componet was put on the account. Now I won't know for sure exactly what will happen but when you have customer services agreeing that it is Market 3 then I see no reason to doubt it. with reference to Ofcom I don't know if anyone else has spoken with them as I have but as I have previously posted they will not get involved in saying what exchange is in what Market . That is for suppliers to determine in line with the definition published by Ofcom . This is what plusnet has done in this instance for which they should be applauded. For those still saying that Trentham is Market 2 then I'm sorry but I can't see how you cannot understand the definition of Market 3......4 llu's end of!!!

nadger
Usergroup Member

Posts: 481


« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2010, 07:25:51 pm »

Obviously debating this amongst ourselves has no bearing on the actual outcome and, as I've previously said, I'd be happy to be wrong.

It's unfortunate that the dates for various LLU providers, except Orange, isn't shown. It's not impossible that some of these were only proposed providers at time initial market status was set.

Regards

John
Oldjim

Posts: 1014

« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2010, 07:36:35 pm »

The situation is fairly clear.
Ofcom produced their document in Dec 2007 for consultation which closed on Feb 7 2008 at which point the list was frozen. Exchanges which had 4 or more providers at that time were market 3. Exchanges which didn't have 4 or more providers at that time fell under the second rule
Quote
If an exchange is scheduled to offer broadband from 4 or more providers in the future then it’ll be Market 2 if it serves less than 10,000 lines and Market 3 if it serves more than 10,000.
At that time Trentham I believe had only 3 principle operators - BT, AOL and Talk Talk - as Orange went live on 20 Jan 2010 and Be went live on 5 March 2008.
Quote
SamKnows Broadband - Availability - Trentham (WMTRE) Exchange
19/03/2008, Be Unlimited has enabled the Trentham exchange for their service. 05/03/2008
This means that the second rule applies and as Ofcom haven't updated their ruling you are stuck with Market 2 status
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 07:39:40 pm by Oldjim »
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