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Plusnet Usergroup » All Users - The Open Forum » The Business Users Forum » Usenet access via Business premier
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Author Topic: Usenet access via Business premier  (Read 51555 times)
mbeckett

Posts: 388

« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2007, 12:02:09 pm »

Hi there,

I will aim to get a definitive answer for you on Monday (make sure you hold me to that timescale! Smiley)

However this will involve discussion with the product team to find out what exactly the experience should be, and then with networks to find out what it currently is to see if they differ.

Kind Regards
Mand

Mand Beckett
Plusnet Comms Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
Simon M

Posts: 29

« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2007, 01:54:29 pm »

Thanks Mand.

Ping times to both astraweb & giganews servers currently over 3 seconds. Yes, that's whole seconds.

The law of unintended consequences has been at work here. When Plusnet provided its own full usenet service as part of the package price, it wasn't brilliant, but it was just about ok for the lighter user. The decision to switch to text only was understandable, but as was pointed out at the time, it wasn't going to be all gain for Plusnet.

The trouble was that everyone then went off & got accounts with third party providers & two things happened. Firstly people discovered material they didn't know existed before & wanted to download it. Secondly, those people who signed up to time based rather than throughput based accounts wanted to get the most out of their subscription. As they were now paying money for these services, they got very upset when they were unable to obtain them.

So although Plusnet relieved the load on it's own usenet servers, the amount of usenet binary material that it will now be asked to deliver will have gone up enormously. It would have gone up anyway, but removing the Plusnet service will have accelerated the process.
dtomlinson
Plusnet Staff

Posts: 2156


« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2007, 04:07:11 pm »

Should be gold  angry

Why should it?

Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
PlusNet Support
dtomlinson
Plusnet Staff

Posts: 2156


« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2007, 04:14:27 pm »

Indeed, I'd guess that it is placed in the silver queue so packets are not dropped therefore the service is usable, however total usenet traffic has a rate limit applied to it, something like 500Mb/sec of total network bandwidth. Getting the "open and honest" plusnet to admit to this will be difficult though imho.

There is no such rate limit on Usenet traffic. The Usenet graphs peaked around 520Mbps on silver the last few days, did a bit more on Tuesday night.

Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
PlusNet Support
Tam

Posts: 1188


100Mb via Enta.net :D

« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2007, 04:33:23 pm »


This is the type of attitude that is the reason PlusNet are in the mess they are in. IMHO.

Business account, Paying 45 per month. Usage 10Gb - 15Gb per month.

Why should you shape *ANY* of my traffic?

Sure, if i'd used 50Gb a month, hell yes shape it, that's to be expected from PN but you should allow me full speed to any protocol i want up to my "fair usage allowance".



dtomlinson
Plusnet Staff

Posts: 2156


« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2007, 10:26:02 pm »

Me asking a question is why we are in a mess? All I want to know is you think binary Usenet should be gold on business account. FTP I can understand, VoIP, yes, web browsing, yep, email, yep, VPN, indeed.

A business account is still a contended product and it still exists on a shared network. It doesn't though have a "fair usage allowance" but gives priority to the applications that business use, so you get the priority on the network for your VoIP and for your email and the other things I mention.

The times when most businesses will be using their connections also crosses the peak/off peak time so it is again designed with this kind of usage pattern in mind (that doesn't mean a business account gets a lower priority outside working hours of course) and now has a dedicated support team based around these hours (again does't mean a business customers won't get support outside of working hours).

It doesn't though mean a business account is a "free for all". When we're back into the Plan A situation then usenet traffic on a business account should work fine, it may not be line speed all the time and unless you're on a PAYG account it won't be. The best speeds on usenet will be overnight when the network is quiet.

Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
PlusNet Support
Simon M

Posts: 29

« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2007, 07:28:30 pm »

Dave

Is VoIP really in gold on business accounts? I had assumed it was Titanium. Your traffic management support page shows it as Titanium. If it really is in gold it may explain a lot of the problems we have been having with VoIP in the last week or so. We use it extensively, particularly for 'internal' communications. Internal is in quotes because we link four offices by VoIP using an Intertex SIP server here. One of these other offices is also on a Plusnet account.

VPN in gold is a bit of a worry too, because it is frequently used for real-time applications. I would certainly want it ranked above email & FTP & probably above web browsing too. I know the ambition is no gold drops, but you are not there yet. That might explain why we have had more VPN connection drops than usual in the last few weeks.

Personally, I don't have any problem with Usenet being in silver. Yes, like Tam I would prefer to have a certain amount each month without any restrictions, but I appreciate that the network has to be managed in real time & at any given moment, what I'm getting someone else isn't. Slowing down the heaviest users would free more high speed bandwidth for lighter users but under normal Plan A conditions, it wouldn't affect me much personally. If it did, I would recognise that was unusual for a business account & consider PAYG. That leads me to the real problem I have been complaining about.

What has affected me more than anything else - more than the actual Usenet problem - is the difficulty getting any timely, accurate information about the current situation. There is one debate to be had about what Plusnet should have published on the Service Status pages. There is quite another about what answers should have been given to customers who ask specific questions.

If you read through this thread & open ticket Q ID: 21299943 you will see what I mean. I've read quite a lot of what has been written elsewhere, but your reply here is the first time I have seen staff recognition that Plan A wasn't in place on anything other than BB Plus. Your last paragraph is the first suggestion that business Usenet traffic is not performing to specification across the board, rather than a particular problem I might be suffering, although Mand is trying to get me an answer to that question today.

I was trying to establish exactly what the situation was & whether it was considered 'normal', partly so that I could decide whether a change of product was needed. The conclusion I can finally reach from what you say (subject to Mand's info) is that there are abnormal circumstances affecting business accounts at the moment & that when things return to normal, that Usenet in silver will be usable for the use I make of it. That should have been the conclusion last Monday, not a week later after having had to question everything I had been told.

Because I run this business from an office in my house, this connection serves both my business & non-business requirements. It so happens that most of my Usenet activity relates to my hobbies rather than anything business critical, so if you are going to get back to Plan A on business accounts within the next couple of months, then I can struggle on till then. I have noticed that over the last couple of days, it has improved from un-usable to mearly terrible.
dtomlinson
Plusnet Staff

Posts: 2156


« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2007, 10:59:25 pm »

VoIP's in titanium, VPN is in gold, sorry if that wasn't clear. The positioning of VPN above email and FTP and browsing is something I can see being debated for a while. Traditionally I'd say email would be of higher importance that VPN, but things like the recent snow is showing that businesses are increasingly using VPN and other remote access, there's some graphs from Bob somewhere that show the increased amount of remote access traffic from when it snowed.

Right now though the Plan B situation is mainly affecting Broadband Plus but also affects silver traffic and that includes usenet on business accounts and Premier. Silver should be usable, but the amount of gold traffic on the network means that speeds on silver at peak and in an afternoon are lower than we would expect to see.

Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
PlusNet Support
jelv1

Posts: 2130

« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2007, 11:20:07 pm »

There is a slight possibility that your VOIP traffic isn't being recognised as VOIP. You could run Wireshark to capture the traffic and check that the incoming packets are correctly tagged as Titanium.

jelv
dtomlinson
Plusnet Staff

Posts: 2156


« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2007, 02:17:35 pm »

We've added a few more signatures today, so if it wasn't being detected it may be now, but if not that let us have the details so we can add it in the next batch.

Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
PlusNet Support
Simon M

Posts: 29

« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2007, 11:20:22 am »

I will aim to get a definitive answer for you on Monday (make sure you hold me to that timescale! Smiley)

However this will involve discussion with the product team to find out what exactly the experience should be, and then with networks to find out what it currently is to see if they differ.

Just a nudge to Mand to remind her that it's now Wednesday.  smiley
mr_chris

Posts: 1927


« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2007, 11:38:06 am »

Ah, but she didn't say WHICH monday Wink
* mr_chris hides from Mand

Chris
dhookham
Administrator

Posts: 3268


« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2007, 12:10:45 pm »

And if Mand wanted to redefine "Monday" as any other day, I wouldn't dare to argue!

It's the PlusNet Way
Simon M

Posts: 29

« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2007, 12:21:18 pm »

Now look, you two - you are not improving my chances of getting a sensible answer to my question.   rolleyes  rolleyes
mr_chris

Posts: 1927


« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2007, 12:25:07 pm »

oops, sorry... I shall consider myself duly chastised Wink

Chris
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