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Plusnet Usergroup » All Users - The Open Forum » The Business Users Forum » What happens after my first year?
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Author Topic: What happens after my first year?  (Read 28920 times)
ratcom

Posts: 2

« on: September 17, 2006, 07:42:36 pm »

I signed up with plusnet almost a year ago now and was wondering what happens to my account. The reason I ask is because I read on the "other" forum about something called a "rolling contract" ref http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46357 I thought I'd just go to a monthly contract by which I could give 30 days notice to end?

BTW - Im on PlusNet Business Premier up to 8Mb
          I'm happy with plusnet (one of the few!) and dont see me leaving any time soon.
pcsni

Posts: 1255


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 08:58:02 am »

Hi there.

This has clearly been the subject of a fair bit of discussion on various forums recently and appears to have caused some concern and a level of confusion which has effected me and my clients also.

It would appear that we business customers have indeed signed up to rolling annual contracts.

PUG have raised this with PlusNet and they have confirmed that we are indeed on rolling annual contracts. This has clearly not been communicated effectively to end users and therefore has given rise to the misunderstanding and confusion which currently exists.

This issue has been raised as part of the current Business users project and will be reviewed by PlusNet.

PUG will keep the customer base appraised of any and all developments as we get them.

Many of the PUG members have raised concerns regarding this, as those of us who have business accounts or are responsible for servicing and supporting business clients, have clearly misinterpreted the available information surrounding business contracts. We will continue to follow this very closely and report back as soon as possible with any relevant information.



 

 

ratcom

Posts: 2

« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 10:55:50 am »

thanks for the informative reply, I'll be keeping a close eye on this one.
James

Posts: 1010


3567190798

« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 11:46:42 am »

Just wondering if PN are getting any closer to giving us an asnwer on this one?

Also, would it be possible to pay 14.99 to downgrade the account to a residential one, and then cancel the residential product on a standard 30days notice?

Can you regrade from Business products to residential ones?

Best Wishes - James

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb
lmartin

Posts: 1404


Comms Team

« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 01:43:15 pm »

I can confirm that Business products do come with a rolling yearly contract.  So your 12 months is renewed at the end of the period unless we receive at least 30 days notice beforehand.

Liam Martin
PlusNet Comms Team
James

Posts: 1010


3567190798

« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 02:35:12 pm »

Hmm, methinks my business accounts will be going elsewhere then when they are due for 'renewal'.

A shame really, because none of them have ever had much in the way of issues, but flexibility is very important these days - ADSL may not be the best option for our business forever, its likely that at some stage web access will become business critical, at which stage a move back to leased lines will be required.
I'm not prepared to stay with a BB providor who, depending on timing, could require as much as 12months payments, just to cease our service.
We need to be with a providor who will give us the flexibility we need.

Another kick in the trousers for business customers!

(Phew, just got there in time to cancel one account, was going to roll into another 12 months on Saturday!)

Thanks to all, it'll be a shame to leave PN, since I've always received service and support which is second to none for my business accounts, but this is frankly unacceptable.


Best Wishes - James

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb
Colin
Usergroup Member

Posts: 6339


WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 02:37:33 pm »

Thanks to all, it'll be a shame to leave PN, since I've always received service and support which is second to none for my business accounts, but this is frankly unacceptable.

It's also the first I've heard of it, but I've not paid much attention to business account contracts, as I've never needed one.

Colin Ogilvie
Plusnet Usergroup Member
Using: Plusnet Extra
kitz

Posts: 4323

WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 02:55:31 pm »

TBH I think the rolling contract is stupid, and needs reviewing..  but then again Ive said this elsewhere.

Dont forget the Geeks!
kitz 2005
Jaowon

Posts: 241

« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 03:18:08 pm »

TBH I think whole plusnet mentality over the last 2 years is stupid, and needs reviewing..  but then again Ive said this elsewhere.

Smiley
James

Posts: 1010


3567190798

« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 03:33:22 pm »

TBH I think PN are on the up again, and its a shame to be leaving over something so daft.. but then again, I've said this elsewhere.

 wink

Best Wishes - James

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb
lmartin

Posts: 1404


Comms Team

« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 03:48:11 pm »

I'm told that has been happening ever since we started selling broadband products.  It's just been highlighted now :

a) Because people are putting us under more scruitiny than ever, and;

b) Because more Business Accounts are wanting to leave due to service issues etc...

We are going to be making this clearer on the Portal and we do, in general, want to make the portal pages clearer with regards to the Terms & Conditions / Product Features etc...  This is one of the things we'll be working to do over the coming months. 

It's important to note that in no way are we the only ISP that employ this rolling contract.  This process is very much in use across many B2B agreements in the industry.  It's a bit like Insurance.

Liam Martin
PlusNet Comms Team
James

Posts: 1010


3567190798

« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 04:47:21 pm »

Hmm, had another in depth scan of the T's and C's.

Part of the T's and C's deal with the fact that the agreement is not transferable by the customer, to anybody else.

Doh! The previous company I worked for went into administration last year.

The agreement was transferred to a new company. (tut tut PN)

Looks like PN are in breach of the T's and C's, so I guess notice period is irrelevant now.  wink

Quote
25. How this Agreement can be transferred

Neither we nor you can transfer this Agreement or any part of it except that we can transfer all or part of it to a company that is a subsidiary or holding company of ours, or a subsidiary of that holding company (all as defined by Section 736 of the Companies Act 1985 as amended by the Companies Act 1989).

Hee Hee - looks like we can leave sooner than I thought.

/off to find another ISP for work.

Best Wishes - James

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb
kitz

Posts: 4323

WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2006, 05:50:00 pm »

Liam..

as you know Ive brought this up internally.. and have asked them to review this situation

They have never stuck to this in the past and imho its ludicrous if they do so now. 
I gave my reasons why imho this could do PN more harm than good by sticking to this policy now of all times.
James has just stated the prime example I gave above as one of his reasons why.

How about those users that are on home annual contracts ....  iirc then the T+Cs where exactly the same for them too.
They certainly were when I signed up... are you going to state that home users on annual are also rolling too.
One of the reasons I paid 11.75 when I joined PN was because the contract could be interpreted as rolling and I wasnt too sure.

Dont forget the Geeks!
kitz 2005
James

Posts: 1010


3567190798

« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 09:39:05 am »

I've just been through the sign-up process for a business account, and whilst it states a 12mth contract, there is no mention of what happens after the 12mths are up.
Nowhere could I find any info telling people that by not cancelling after 12mths they will automatically commit to another 12mth contract.

Comparing it to car insurance is ridiculous too. Car insurers sell you a product which lasts for 12mths, then write to you to tell you that the new price for the next 12mths is x

Plusnet do nothing of the sort - they have never written to me to ask if I would like a new 12mth contract.

Car insurance companies also have to ensure they remain competitive to retain your business. PN don't write to you at the end of a 12mths contract at c80/mth to tell you that they can now offer you a new 12mth contract at just c35/mth.

In my experience, if I want to change my car insurance to an alternative supplier part way through a 12mth contract, I have to give 30 days notice, and then pay for an extra 30days after my notice period as a penalty.

Stop with the stupid analogies PN, and start to act as a sensible B2B supplier.

Do PN not want business customers any more? We generally only use bandwidth during off peak hours, and the largest qty used in recent months is 2GB Peak, plus 12GB Off Peak.
Given the premium price we pay, added to the fact that our useage is less than may home users who pay much less, added to a ridiculous contract term - PN are no longer able to offer a service which makes sense.

To keep things simple I will probably have to move our contracts where we provide ADSL to staff too, and if I have to manage multiple connections with another supplier, it'll eventually make sense to move all my family and friends accounts which I manage too in order to keep things transparent. Fair enough its only 10 accounts or so, but for a business model built on referrals, this type of policy is likely to cause at least a stutter.

Best Wishes - James

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb
neilarmstrong

Posts: 733


WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2006, 05:30:32 pm »

Hi James,

You are right - the analogies are not relevant. Let me explain how we got to where we are.

Since we first launched business broadband services the contracts have always been a minimum 12 months and on the renewal date these automatically renew to a new 12 month contract. You can see this mentioned specifically on one of our archived T&C pages http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/tandcarchive/pre070704/contract_periods.html

What has happened is over the years we've re-done T&Cs 3 or 4 times and the last time we updated our T&Cs (Sept 05) some details on contracts were made more generic so that we could launch VoIP and Home Phone services in the future without constantly having to update T&Cs.

The unfortunate downside of this is that some of the specific detail about contract terms was lost from the portal and no-one really noticed. The reason we didn't notice is that a year ago customers were much happier and very few business customers wanted to leave. We also now know that some CSC staff were not aware of the policy, others were and were correctly enforcing it and it was simply never an issue. We'd had staff leave and join and the policy had got lost along the way hence why we weren't giving a consistent message out.

However, where we are now is the policy clearly needs reviewing. We have a workshop next week to do with our next business product refresh and this will be item number 1 on the agenda. It's an old policy and in need of a review.

We will also shortly be publishing some product plans for the next 12 months. That will also include a customer facing database of our internal policies so that we use the same information internally and externally - i.e. instead of having an intranet we just use the portal that all customers can see as we have nothing to hide.

Like many things we have neglected business customers in the last year and our approach to our business customers is something that we are working to change. but like everything we can't do it overnight. The product team in the last month has done nothing on product development. That sounds terrible, but the reason is simple. The team has been handling customer complaints and problem resolution.

So yes we do recognise that business customers use less, pay more and should get treated much better.

Neil Armstrong
Products Director
PlusNet
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